“I’m Like a Scraggly Little Spider”: Suki Waterhouse, in Conversation with Sharon Van Etten

When we were first introduced to Suki Waterhouse over a decade ago, we knew her mainly as a leggy catwalk beauty. But after the critical success of her 2022 debut record, I Can’t Let Go, the indie princess knew she had more music to make. Fresh off a star turn in the Emmy-winning limited series Daisy Jones and the Six, and after opening for Taylor Swift on the record-breaking Eras Tour, Waterhouse has now released her sophomore effort, Memoir of a Sparklemuffin. Her most vulnerable body of work yet, the album’s whopping 18 tracks are filled with dreamy 90s sonic textures that sound like they’re reverberating from a nearby record player. To mark the occasion, the Brit multi-hyphenate sat down with her idol, fellow actress and singer Sharon Van Etten, to talk motherhood and rock n’ roll stardom.—ARY RUSSELL

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SHARON VAN ETTEN: Congratulations on your record! Is it a double record?

SUKI WATERHOUSE: I think it is. Everyone keeps saying it’s a double record, but how many songs is a double record?

VAN ETTEN: It constantly changes.

WATERHOUSE: Well, it’s 18 songs, so I feel like it’s a bit longer, but I don’t know. Everyone was telling me not to put so many songs on the record. I was fighting everyone and myself by the end on what songs I wanted to be on there, and it was constantly changing. I changed singles really close to the dates. I’m always completely chaotic in my thinking around what should be on the record and what the singles should be.

VAN ETTEN: Did you have a vision going into it or did you just let it flow until you had a collection? 

WATERHOUSE: I did a session in Devon in England where we were locked in the studio for a week in the middle of the countryside. It was pissing down rain. We had no access to shops apart from this place called the Co-op on Deliveroo, which is like English Postmates. So, it was just bad ham slices and cream cheese and that kind of isolation. I feel like that week was where this palette really emerged, and these different songs. Like, I wrote this song called “My Fun”—it was so upbeat and joyful and I found this bag of recorders so I’m playing the recorder. I also wrote a song called “Lullaby” there where I’d taken a sleeping pill and then gone into the studio, because the bed was in the studios. So, there were different kinds of feelings in the songs that I wrote there. I’d thought everything had to be quite morose, in a way, and to make something that felt really upbeat whilst not making me want to cringe and die was this eye-opening experience. And I guess when I made my first record, I didn’t really know at that time that I would be even making a second one. When I started that record, there wasn’t a label or a team, there was nothing. I made the record just like that with Brad Cook, who I wanted to work with partially because of you, by the way, because let’s just pause and say this: You’re like my absolute number one, listen to you every single day, so excited to talk to you right now. 

VAN ETTEN: Aww!

WATERHOUSE: But yeah, at that point I didn’t really know that I was going make another record. So, I guess that’s one of the reasons why there ended up being so many songs on this one—there was this feeling of the real need to be creating music. But it’s never easy making a record. It’s just telling yourself to trust the process, but not trusting the process at all.

VAN ETTEN: You had quite a crew and different iterations of instrumentation and band members for the songs, right? Do you feel that there were certain groups of individuals that brought something different to your palette?

WATERHOUSE: Yeah, for sure. My collaborators won’t always be musicians either. On my last record, my friend Kristen [Cochrane] and I—she’s an incredibly smart writer, but doesn’t write music—we’d gone through these text conversations she was having with an ex-partner, and that became “Melrose Meltdown.” And this time, I met an amazing poet called EJ Saftner. We randomly connected on Instagram, then we started hanging out and sending each other ideas and going into studios together, but she doesn’t play instruments and she’d never been in a session before. Do you ever get things from completely different places?

VAN ETTEN: Absolutely. I’ve been working on some writing recently, and I read this article about a lot of the new anti-aging technology, so that has been an inspiration in a weird way where I’m like, “Okay, now I’m having these sci-fi feelings of incorporating pieces of articles into my songs.” 

WATERHOUSE: That’s cool. You should make a song about everyone injecting themselves with Ozempic and just shriveling down, or something even more sinister.

VAN ETTEN: You were doing a lot of writing while you were pregnant, right?

WATERHOUSE: Yeah. That was an interesting part of making this record, the physical limitation at a certain point. And my record changed so drastically in the six weeks prior to having the baby. I moved a studio into the living room and was doing a full day of music whilst also having my closet emptied to be the baby’s room. But I thrive off that kind of chaos. And I sort of loved the physical limitation of it in a way, because it really forced this extra presence with the record. Just being stuck in an armchair, I mean, that’s really what you need at the end of making a record anyway, right? Not leaving any stones unturned or avoiding anything. Did you make any music when you were pregnant or were you like, “I’m done, I’m out”?

VAN ETTEN: Well, I didn’t know I was making it while I was doing it, because you take those moments, and I would write and think and play little guitar parts or weird piano melodies and listen to old demos. But he was born in ’17, and then I had a record done by ’18. I thought I was going to take a break for longer.

WATERHOUSE: Yeah, same thing. But I guess your brain doesn’t stop ticking in a way. You have no idea how you’re going to feel, but my instinct was that I was going to somewhat be the same person that I was before, even though changed. That there was going to be something that would stay the same, which would be that making my art was still such a vital thing for my wellbeing.

VAN ETTEN: Yeah, you figure it out. I was nervous to tour with my son, and I know you’re about to tour-

WATERHOUSE: Yeah. Did you take your son on tour?

VAN ETTEN: A bit here and there when it made sense. Or when we could find someone that would be willing to travel with us, because it’s hard just as two parents, especially if we’re both working on the road. But you find the right people that get your lifestyle, and then it’s a, I wouldn’t say “breeze” is the right word-

WATERHOUSE: But it’s enjoyable, yeah. You had him sleep on the bus and everything?

VAN ETTEN: I use the term “sleep” very loosely with my kid in general. He’s a night owl, and he’s-

WATERHOUSE: A rock star.

VAN ETTEN: Oh, he loves hanging out with adults. It’s like I’ve ruined him for children because he thinks kids are so boring. [Laughs] He likes the excitement. Now he’s school age, so it’ll be trickier as I figure out what’s next. But we’ll find the times where it’s like, “This is more of an experience. You’re learning more doing this than you are in second grade.”

WATERHOUSE: Exactly. I kind of can’t wait. There are so many hours in the day where you are not on stage that I feel like there’s so much time to walk them around a new city. I have this semi-romantic image of it that will probably be very much shattered. [Laughs]

VAN ETTEN: I mean, it’ll be full-on, but you won’t ever forget it. Where are you going on this tour?

WATERHOUSE: It’s all around North America. There’s going to be LA—I’m super stoked for the Greek [Theatre]. I came to your Hollywood Bowl show by myself to watch you. It was the most special thing ever. It was so beautiful.

VAN ETTEN: That was wild. That feels like forever ago now. 

WATERHOUSE: It was you, Angel [Olsen], and…

VAN ETTEN: Julien Baker.

WATERHOUSE: Yeah. That was an all-star show.

VAN ETTEN: It felt like summer camp, literally, that whole tour. It was one of the best tours I ever was a part of. How are you touring as a band? What is your setup?

WATERHOUSE: I have Raj [Jain] on guitar, Myqle [Motorcycle] on bass, Emilia [Paige] on drums, and Pete’s [Labberton] coming this time and doing extra keys and guitar. And then, recently I did a Maida Vale session, and I did a cover of “Sexy to Someone” by Clairo and a couple of my own songs, but I woke up that morning and was like, “I need a trumpet player!” So I called my friend Blue and he managed to find someone in a couple of hours. And then I was like, “I really want to have a trumpet player at all times now.” So we got him to come to The Eras Tour as well at Wembley, and I watched the videos back and was like, “Thank god I had the trumpet player! How could I have had the courage to walk down that huge Wembley stage without one?!” It would’ve been unthinkable.

VAN ETTEN: Oh my gosh, how was Wembley?

WATERHOUSE: It was the most insane thing. That moment where those automatic doors open and then you just walk out and you’re somewhere that you’ve seen so many times as a kid. It definitely was a top, surreal life moment, and so special because it was doing it with Taylor [Swift], who’s been so supportive and is such a great friend. And also, just having all of your family, all of your friends that you grew up with, all huddled together. My parents don’t go to stadium shows with 92,000 people in them ever, so even just getting to experience her show with them was a really magical moment.

VAN ETTEN: At what point did you decide that you wanted to go from acting to music?

WATERHOUSE: The thing is that I’d always felt like I was a musician. Music was the first thing I did, something that I’d always embraced. And I’ve been releasing music since about a decade ago. My life just took a different turn, and I couldn’t quite see a way in. But I never stopped writing. And there were so many shit songs that I wrote before I even felt good about one, before I even put a song out.

VAN ETTEN: We all have those.

WATERHOUSE: I guess doing modeling and acting, there always felt like there was this missing part, this other path that I had to go down. But then it was frustrating and isolating because I was like, “Fuck, I can’t have done modeling, then do acting, and then do music. That’s just so fucking annoying.” You what I mean? And that took of a long time to break out of because you feel like there are all these limitations.

VAN ETTEN: But those things are all creative. I was listening to the song, “Model, Actress, Whatever,” and I could sense a bit of your frustration of, “Okay, I have multitudes.” And it’s easy to dismiss one side of yourself, but there are different parts of who you are. I feel like I had the opposite thing where I was pretty lost in my music for a while when I got offered an acting job, and I was like, “This is so not who I am, but it’s what the universe is offering me right now, so I’m going to try it. I won’t know until I try.” 

WATERHOUSE: Did you feel like that experience also informed writing songs? Because acting is so fucking vulnerable, in another way. When you have people around you and you’ve got to perform and there’s this expectation on that moment. It’s preparation but it’s also throwing it all away—it’s everything all at once. Putting yourself into those situations, you sometimes find yourself. It feeds everything.

VAN ETTEN: Well, it’s interesting. When you’re writing a song, even if it’s a caricature of your life or some distant sense of who you are, you’re still interpreting all of that from your own experience. Whereas when you’re acting, you’re interpreting somebody else’s vision of this character that you have to find your connection with. So I was seeing the real actors do their thing on the set, analyze a scene and talk through feelings and background stories—that was really inspiring to witness, but I was the newbie that hung back and observed most of the time. I caught myself being shy in ways that I didn’t know about myself.

WATERHOUSE: That’s what I mean! And yeah, it’s so unbelievably inspiring watching everybody—I feel like you all fall in love with each other, not in a romantic sense. And you spend like 13 hours a day talking to these people. It’s so all-encompassing that it will inevitably inspire me to write music about something I’ve heard, or a conversation, or how I’m feeling internally about facing being this other person and walking in their boots.

VAN ETTEN: Do you feel like you’re taking a break from acting now? 

SUKI WATERHOUSE: I just auditioned for something I really want and I’m doing a callback, so I want to act.

VAN ETTEN: You want to do it all!

WATERHOUSE: Yeah. I guess there are limitations when you book a tour and stuff like that, but I think there’s space for acting still, and for still being able to take a couple months off to go and just do something completely different. Because that’s really living life, and it also gives you new things to write about. You have to have space in between writing for things to happen to you. I guess I always want to be completely surprised by what I’ll be doing.

VAN ETTEN: Yeah, you’ve got to live a little to have anything to write about. So, how are you preparing leading up to the release and tour?

WATERHOUSE: Well, this week I’m doing some press and trying to explain to people what a Sparklemuffin spider is. 

VAN ETTEN: How did you find that name again? Because I know it’s about metamorphosis, but you said you identify as the scrappy spider—

WATERHOUSE: Yeah, I’m in this period of metamorphosis, but I’m not this beautiful delicate butterfly. I’m like a scraggly little spider. I got really into the Sparklemuffin because I just couldn’t believe that he’d only been discovered in 2016. And the name got me. He’s just this fuzzy colorful spider and when everyone discovered him they were blown away by this little razzle-dazzle dance that he did. He’s kind of like a little court jester and if he doesn’t make his partner laugh, a door opens beneath him and he drops into a hungry pit of tigers. [Laughs] Not really, but his partner will eat him. And this has made it slightly difficult because there’s been a lot of headlines like, “Suki Waterhouse names album after a man-eating spider,” and then I’m going around being like, “I resonate with the spider,” and it’s like, “Oh god.” [Laughs] 

VAN ETTEN: [Laughs] I do connect with that metamorphosis too, whether it be career-wise or finding the right person or becoming a mother and looking back on your path, but also moving forward.

WATERHOUSE: You also kind of wrote a memoir—you were actually one of my memoir inspirations. There’s nothing that I love more than reading someone’s memoirs and having it come from their voice. I absolutely adored Liz Phair’s, it’s these little vignettes from her life that she calls “horror stories” and they’re very honest. I loved Jane Fonda’s documentary. Anyone’s memoirs, I eat them up. It just is such a pleasure as a fan to get the context of someone’s life and what they’ve actually been through to get to the point of even making art and to survive it all really. How was it making that audio memoir [on Audible]?

VAN ETTEN: It’s hard looking back, right? In writing songs you sort of try to avert the specific things so that you can write in a general way where people can connect to you in their own way and you don’t alienate the listener. But at the same time, a lot of my past and trauma and past relationships, I’ve learned from them. So, if I can learn from them, other people can learn from them, and hopefully they can give people closure to be able to move on as well. I’m sure you have similar feelings when you share your story with people.

WATERHOUSE: Absolutely. And listening to yours, I just felt so seen. The way that sharing your story and having ownership of your narrative moves you and others forward is literally magic. 

VAN ETTEN: I’m so excited for you. The songs on your record are incredible. I was on this emotional roller coaster from it feeling reminiscent of growing up in the ’90s and early 2000s musically, but then also having its darker songs, its more celebratory songs, and its gentler moments. I love how diverse and exploratory it is. 

WATERHOUSE: This has been the best excuse to have a FaceTime with you. Thank you so much!

VAN ETTEN: Thanks for wanting to talk to me! I hope we meet in person one day.

WATERHOUSE: Me too. Lots of love.

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Hair: Maranda Widlund using Balmain Hair Couture

Makeup: Sophie Haig using Westman Atelier at Home Agency

Nails: Alex Jachno using Chanel Le Vernis at Opus Beauty

Prop Stylist: Kelly Infield at Walter Schupfer Management

Tailor: Marko Guillen

Photography Assistant: Alexandra Isabella

Fashion Assistant: Luis Pablo Cruz

Production Manager: Vince Barrucco

Post Production: Made Manifest Lab

Location: Studio ST3