“I Don’t Give a Fuck About the Rules”: Yseult, by Gabriella Karefa-Johnson

Yseult is unfettered. Last year, after stunning fashion fans in a showstopping custom Dior Bar jacket at Cannes, the French singer captured the world with a fitting cover of “My Way” at the Paris Olympics. The 30-year-old followed up with a new vision in September, pivoting from emotional ballads to punk anthems on Mental. That album, and Yseult’s revolutionary look, spoke to fashion editor Gabriella-Karefa Johnson, who also knows a thing or two about style, strength, and the burden of representation. So when Yseult got on a Zoom with Johnson, everyone felt seen.

———

FRIDAY 11:30 AM JAN. 10, 2025 LA

YSEULT: Hi.

GABRIELLA KAREFA-JOHNSON: It’s so great to speak with you, Yseult. When I got this offer I was like, “Okay. Well, I’m literally her number one stan.”

YSEULT: [Laughs]

KAREFA-JOHNSON: So it’s going to be a real fan-girl moment, but I’ll try to keep my composure. But really, it’s such an honor. I feel like you’re on this meteoric ascent and I want to get into all of it.

YSEULT: Thank you.

KAREFA-JOHNSON: Where are you right now?

YSEULT: I’m in L.A. and I’m going to the studio. And then I’m going to work out.

KAREFA-JOHNSON: Gorgeous. Does this mean that you’re working on new music?

YSEULT: Kind of, but I’m here because I’m working on my North American tour. It’s a lot to manage but I’m good.

KAREFA-JOHNSON: Well, I’m very thrilled about your tour. Are there any places that you’re incredibly excited to see?

YSEULT: New York, because I was supposed to do a show before COVID and it was canceled. For me, to be onstage, it’s like church. It’s a huge reunion with my fans and you cry and you laugh and you dance.

KAREFA-JOHNSON: I’m obsessed with Mental. I feel like it charts the path of my life from adolescence to adulthood. I’m 33, but I listen to “MTV” and I feel like wearing a Hollister tank top and looking out the window and fantasizing about some boy.

YSEULT: [Laughs] Thank you.

KAREFA-JOHNSON: It’s such a lived-experience kind of album. And I’m now having an epiphany and I’m like, “Is this an album about boys?” Because every single song makes me boy-crazy.

YSEULT: It’s more about my mental state. I’m known in France to be this pop singer who creates beautiful, sad love songs or songs about how I feel in society as a Black woman. But this time I felt more powerful and I was like, “I want to feel bold and fierce onstage. I want to be a rock star. Let me try to meld French and English to create something very hybrid.”

KAREFA-JOHNSON: Yes.

YSEULT: And this project is very nostalgic. Like, some people say, “It reminds me of Tame Impala. It reminds me of Linkin Park,” and I’m obsessed by that. It’s cool because punk culture for me is a way to express all my character. And I like to—how can I say that? I like the idea of showing how much an artist can be versatile. Like you can see me on “Alibi” do some reggaeton pop music. And then, you can see me sing with Rema on Afrobeat music. And now, you see me in a rock punk grunge version of myself. It’s a way to find myself, too. It’s like, “Okay. So I was a sad gal for a moment. And now, I just want to be a rock star and feel strong onstage.” And maybe the project after, it’s going to be another story.

KAREFA-JOHNSON: Absolutely. That versatility is something that I love so much about you. You refuse to be categorized and you defy genre. Even when you were singing at the closing ceremonies of the Olympics, that was such a traditional song, but I was like, “This is also such a punk rock thing to do.” Sister Rosetta Tharpe is screaming “yasss” in the heavens and Tina Turner is smiling somewhere.

YSEULT: [Laughs]

KAREFA-JOHNSON: It was such a revolutionary moment to me.

YSEULT: Thank you.

KAREFA-JOHNSON: I feel like revolution is such a big tenet of rock-n-roll, but it’s also something that you’ve been able to touch on through the fashion world. Talk about versatility. It’s very rare to be a Dior girl and a Balenciaga girl and a McQueen girl. And I’m wondering, how has fashion intersected in that evolution for you?

YSEULT: All those luxury brands that I collabed with was a huge statement for me because, first, I fucking love fashion. And it was frustrating to not be able to afford it at first because of the money and because of my size. I was like, “It could be so fucking iconic to reach those brands that I dream of and create a little moment of hope for me and the people who are following me on social media.” I think the next step with all of those brands is to create a real project with them and extend the size or create a capsule collection. I want to create access for people who are following me, because they’re like, “Okay, girl. You look good, but how can we get the thing that you have?”

KAREFA-JOHNSON: Please. It’s a need not a want. I will be first to buy every single item that you make. Yseult x Balenciaga or Yseult on her own, I’m there. And let me know if I can ever be a resource to you.

YSEULT: I’m so down.

KAREFA-JOHNSON: This actually brings me to two questions. One is—we love fashion. We’ve become exceptions to the rule, where folks are making things for us so that we can be a part of the fashion world, but it doesn’t extend to our people. Do you ever feel like that is a way of tokenizing you instead of allowing you to spread your wings and effect actual change? Or do you feel like fashion has truly embraced you?

YSEULT: What I’m trying to do with fashion is to take risks. For example, when I went to Balenciaga with a full leather custom look and a black wig and a full white mask, I was like, “Maybe people are going to think I’m too much.” But for me, fashion is about pushing the limits and creating a reaction. I hate to be the regular girl. I like to be versatile and be like, “You know what? For Festival de Cannes, I would like to wear this iconic look from Dior, but in my size.” Because I know that people are going to be like, “What the fuck? How?” As a big woman, usually people are disgusted by my physique. And me, I’m like, “I don’t give a fuck because I’m not going to stop living for them.”

KAREFA-JOHNSON: Absolutely.

YSEULT: I’m just going to create more and more and take risks. I remember I wore an archive piece from Alexander McQueen when Sarah Burton was there. She created a dress with huge red roses. Of course, if I’m asking a regular stylist, they’re going to be like, “No, girl. Don’t wear this because it’s too big and it’s going to exaggerate your curves.” And me, I was like, “I don’t give a fuck. I want to look like a beautiful rose, because I am a fucking rose.”

KAREFA-JOHNSON: Yes!

YSEULT: I’m grateful to wear this kind of outfit because I’m like, “This is fucking iconic.” Even Balenciaga, I’m so grateful to collab with Demna and his team. Because those outfits I’m getting, they’re custom and they’re free.

KAREFA-JOHNSON: Period.

YSEULT: Because it’s fucking expensive and I can’t afford it.

KAREFA-JOHNSON: Neither can I, girl. Nobody can. But I think that you’ve really struck the nail on the head. A lot of people are disgusted by happy, big Black women like myself. They just hate to see it coming. And so, the ultimate refusal is showing up loud and proud, however the fuck you want to.

YSEULT: Yeah.

KAREFA-JOHNSON: This leads me to another question. Sometimes the weight of representation, like having to be the one that represents, can feel like a burden. How do you take on that responsibility but also protect yourself and your own mental well-being? How do you take care of yourself in the spotlight with all of this fame and attention?

YSEULT: I feel that now that I’m starting to develop my music internationally, I can feel a difference between how I’m talking about my project and myself internationally and in my own country. I know that in France, I can’t be confident about myself. Because culturally, it’s seen as something very negative to embrace yourself. People are trying to humble me all the time. It happened two weeks ago when I said that my last project deserved to be more heard and seen in my country. It was seen as pretentious. In the U.S., when I’m getting interviewed, I’m more comfortable to talk about myself like, “I love myself as a Black woman. I’m so proud of this project.” So as a French pop artist, it’s hard to navigate between those two cultures. I want to be an example for my people, but I feel so fucking trapped and frustrated.

KAREFA-JOHNSON: Especially in France.

YSEULT: Yeah. So I don’t know if I really want to be an example. I prefer to be punk and be like, “Fuck you, guys. I don’t give a fuck about the rules.”

KAREFA-JOHNSON: Period.

YSEULT: Because if you want to be an example, you need to follow the rules and I hate that. I’m fully independent. I am my own producer. I am my own boss. I own my own companies.

KAREFA-JOHNSON: That’s so fair. And I have to say, the Black woman’s motto everywhere around this world is, “Fuck it. I’ll just do it myself.” One of the songs on your album that makes me feel that way the most is “Bitch You Could Never.”

YSEULT: I love this track.

KAREFA-JOHNSON: When I listened to that song, I felt like I could punch through a brick wall and lift up a G-Wagon with my Gel-X pinky nail extension.

YSEULT: [Laughs]

KAREFA-JOHNSON: I’m like, “What I’m doing is so major that you’re not going to be able to comprehend, baby.”

YSEULT: Yeah.

KAREFA-JOHNSON: I want to ask you about “Anger.” Because in that song, there’s these interludes of conversations, and there’s this one line that I felt in my soul. It’s like, “Why are Black women so threatening to you?” How do you navigate that in your work?

YSEULT: It’s not common in France to have a Black pop singer. I’m doing music that is normally sung by specific people. And I knew from the beginning that it’s going to be a fucking battle to stick to it and to be like, “I don’t want to be an Afro French singer. I don’t want to be a rap French singer. I want to be a pop singer. That’s it.” Right now on French media, everyone says, “Yseult hates her country.” And I’m like, “You are so fucking gross because this is not what I said.” I just said that in this country, there’s a lot of racism and discrimination and homophobia that we need to resolve. I’m facing that shit every fucking day and I’m tired of it. But on “Anger,” I was like, “I’m not going to talk about the French media. I’m just going to call friends and let them talk about their experience as, for example, a Black lesbian woman living in the U.K., or my other friend KiddySmile’s experience as a Black gay person living in France.”

KAREFA-JOHNSON: I follow them on Instagram. Obsessed. My god.

YSEULT: Yeah. I’m just happy for the first time to feel protected by my own people.

KAREFA-JOHNSON: You deserve it. It’s very hard to exist in this condition across cultures, across the world. Racism and white supremacy are always going to be things that we contend with. And it’s so brilliant and admirable that even in spite of it, you’re so willing and gracious with yourself and your spirit and your ideas. I remember the very first time I encountered you was when you were walking the McQueen show. I feel like you saw me and I saw you.

YSEULT: Yes.

KAREFA-JOHNSON: And it was an unspoken moment of, like, “Now, there’s another one of us. We’re here to protect each other.” And that community-building, such as what you did in the song “Anger,” is so important. It’s going to furnish a new generation of folks that can feel more comfortable because they’ve seen it done. I want to know, what does success look like for you now?

YSEULT: My dream is to find peace in my artistry, in my environment. That means I need to be consistent with myself and with people around me. And I need to work on my passions. Since August, I decided to eat well, to work out every day, to take time for myself. I’m looking forward to facing all my trauma and healing from all of that shit, because I just turned 30. I don’t want to be stressed. I don’t want to live in fear.

KAREFA-JOHNSON: Wow. That’s beautiful and I wish peace and safety and security for you. Do you think that a pathway towards that peace will require you to separate the public Yseult from the private Yseult? Are those the same person right now?

YSEULT: Yeah, because Yseult is my real name. I embrace being an open book. Like when you’re listening to “Corps” or “Suicide,” even “MTV,” I’m talking about how I see myself in the mirror. I want to be that emo girl who’s embracing her strength and her vulnerabilities. We can be both, and I think we should break this narrative of “I am a strong, Black woman.” We can add to this quote, “I am a strong, vulnerable, beautiful, and fierce Black woman.” Because we are. If I want to cry, it’s not something weak. It’s like, “I need a moment to myself.” It’s tiring to stay strong.

KAREFA-JOHNSON: Thank you. Soft life—

YSEULT: Yes.

KAREFA-JOHNSON: I love it.

YSEULT: I just want to embrace my vulnerability. And of course, in my country it’s not seen as something positive. I’m like, “Guys, you don’t understand.”

KAREFA-JOHNSON: Come to America. We need you here.

YSEULT: I swear.

KAREFA-JOHNSON: But I do feel like we haven’t talked about fashion enough, because you eat the damn thing every single time. Is there a relationship between your performance and the fashion we’ll see on this tour?

YSEULT: Good question. I’m producing my whole tour. And for me, it’s another cost. I need to find designers who are going to create customs for my fucking physique. I’m not going to lie, it’s not easy. For this project, I would like to wear more leather, more see-through things.

KAREFA-JOHNSON: You need Chrome Hearts. You need a Ludovic de Saint Sernin moment.

YSEULT: I swear to god.

KAREFA-JOHNSON: Let me get this list going because you know I’m about to pop off some DMs, girl.

YSEULT: [Laughs]

KAREFA-JOHNSON: I think this rock era for you is so revolutionary. Every Black diva on the planet goes through this moment because punk rock, by virtue of its emotionality and what people perceive as aggression, is such a part of the Black experience. It’s such a part of a woman’s experience. But it’s also revolutionary because when we think about rock-n-roll culturally, we think about skinny white people, and it’s not what it’s giving.

YSEULT: Yeah.

KAREFA-JOHNSON: So let’s give the best rock-n-roll looks in the world, the best leather, the best studs. I’m going to find your stylist online and we’re going to get down. But I also wanted to touch on what you were saying about the cost of everything. You chose not to sign to a major label. You wanted to do it on your own. Is it hard to remain an artist when you also have to be a producer, when you also have to be the financer?

YSEULT: I don’t want to say it’s easy, but it’s more manageable now. Five years ago, I was lost. I was like, “I don’t know how to read a contract. I don’t know how to negotiate my rate. I don’t know how to manage people.” It was a lot. But now, I’m more organized. I have a lawyer. I have an accountant—

KAREFA-JOHNSON: Come on, team.

YSEULT: I don’t have a manager or a personal assistant, but it’s going to come maybe soon. But this is the first time that I’m going to produce a whole tour and it’s a lot. I’m like, “Oh my fucking god.” So I need to pay the hotel, the flights, the truck, the bus, the van, the—

KAREFA-JOHNSON: Oh, girl.

YSEULT: But at the end, I know it’s going to be beautiful because I’m working hard every day, and I know that people are going to like it. My only fear is that my fans buy tickets and I don’t deliver. So I’m like, “No. There is no way that I’m going to fail myself and fail this tour.” I’m going to find a way to create a whole punk rock universe.

KAREFA-JOHNSON: Absolutely.

YSEULT: It’s the price of when you decide to stay independent. I can see the light already. I’m like, “If I’m working hard and I’m surrounded by beautiful people and spirits, everything is going to be okay.” And at the end, I can buy my fucking house and be peaceful, but—

KAREFA-JOHNSON: But for now—

YSEULT: [Laughs]

KAREFA-JOHNSON: You’re going to do it! As somebody who watches your Instagram lives religiously, you could literally stand up on that stage in a freaking brown paper bag and you would still be giving way more than all these other girls. So I can’t wait. I’m buying my ticket. I’ll be there in New York and probably L.A. too, girl. I’m so happy for you—2025 is giving for you already. Thank you so much for your time.

YSEULT: Thank you, Gabriella.

KAREFA-JOHNSON: Enjoy the studio. I’ll see you soon and really do hit me if you need any help with anything.

YSEULT: Okay. Thank you so much.

KAREFA-JOHNSON: Ciao.

 

———

Creative Direction: Gonçalo Gameiro.

Hair: Yumiko Hikage at CLM.

Makeup: Clotilde Puvis de Chavannes using L’Oreál at St. Vincent Management.

Nails: Adrienne Soter at B. Agency.

Digital Technician: Jérôme Vivet.

Photography Assistants: Frederic Troehler and Valentino Bianchi.

Fashion Assistants: Rebecca Perrier and Lou Laporte.

On-site Production: Clara Rea.

Production Assistant: Celeste Pettorelli.

Post-production: Ovidiu Oltean.

Location: Le Georges & Beaumarly.

Special Thanks: Le Georges & Beaumarly.