“Get Titties, Look Cunt”: Meet Mel 4Ever, Pop Star of the Moment

Mel 4Ever’s new EP, She Culture.1, opens with a track called “J.K. Rowling,” which tells the story of a boy pelting the eventual pop star in the face with quarters in the fifth grade. From there, the album follows a trans woman navigating life and love as someone who is consistently told by society that she’s not entitled to either. In the music video for the title track, images of mutilation and disfigurement are used to show the weaponization and reclamation of her transition. “How I understand transness is it’s actually protection of myself, of my mind, my sanity,” the 28-year-old explains. “It’s armor, at the end of the day.” As an aspiring trans person myself, I related deeply to these themes. Last month, I Zoomed with Mel from a sublet in Berlin, where I’d flown to for a fresh start—creatively, emotionally, sexually, genderly—after the death of my father. We found ourselves bonding over fucking, darkrooms, death, puking, Kesha, boys, girls, songwriting, and so much more. The album opener ends with the declaration: “This is tranny shit.” In our chat, Mel defined her happiness as “sexual liberation and personal freedom, things I was told were terrible.” Ultimately, I’m discovering that “tranny shit” and “happiness” go hand in hand, and in talking to Mel I began to understand why.

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MEL4EVER: Hey, girl. I just got locked out of my apartment–

HILTON DRESDEN: No!

MEL4EVER: And someone delivered six Frappuccinos to my apartment. What is going on?

DRESDEN: Wait, you got locked out and then a delivery person showed up with six Frappuccinos? Are you drinking one of them?

MEL4EVER: I’m going to, but no. I was on my way back from a different coffee. Basically, I was at a car dealership for 12 hours yesterday.

DRESDEN: Oh, because you’re in L.A. 

MEL4EVER: She was like, getting a car all day yesterday. I don’t even know what’s happened in the past 48 hours, but miraculously I have a 700 credit score.

DRESDEN: Oh, that’s good, right?

MEL4EVER: No, it’s like fully cunt.

DRESDEN: What kind of car, if I may?

MEL4EVER: It’s a Mazda CX-5 Sport.

DRESDEN: So you’re fully in L.A. Are you in heaven?

MEL4EVER: It’s so much better than New York. It’s confusing. I just got coffee and no one spit on me and called me a tranny, at least verbally.

DRESDEN: Right, but mentally, you were not sure. I think it makes sense to start with J.K. Rowling. There’s a million things to unpack, the first being the boy in your class who was throwing quarters at you saying it was “for your sex change.” First of all, I’m so sorry. Secondly, have you been in touch with the bastard?

MEL4EVER: I’m saying names and his name is Drayton.

DRESDEN: I could have told you that.

MEL4EVER: No, we’ve not been in touch, but I would like that money. 

DRESDEN: That’s your money. That would go about 25% of the way to a Frappuccino in today’s economy. What was your headspace in fifth grade? Did you have any idea you would be creating music about it?

MEL4EVER: I grew up in Alabama, so it was very much the scenario where I didn’t know I was gay until someone told me. Because when you are femme and you live in the south, and it’s like the early 2000s, people were like, “You’re a faggot.” And I was like, “What is a faggot?” Whether or not that was true, that was kind of the vibe. I had been getting called faggot since literally kindergarten, which is nuts. Why are you calling a six-year-old a faggot?

DRESDEN: That is crazy.

MEL4EVER: In middle school, everyone repeated “you’re a girl” so much that it was a real internal struggle and source of shame. Did I know I was trans? I knew something was up, but I wouldn’t let myself go there mentally. Before I started getting bullied, I would close my eyes and I’d be like, “Okay, think really hard about being a girl, and  you’ll wake up the next morning and you’ll turn into a girl.” I thought it was some magical power. It didn’t work.

DRESDEN: It sort of worked.

MEL4EVER: It sort of worked. I had no idea I would be making music. This was a pipe dream. Being out as trans and making music was a double pipe dream. It’s just been so crazy. 

DRESDEN: From other interviews I’ve read, it sounds like coming out as trans and beginning to make music and sobriety kind of all happened at once. About four-ish years ago, you kind of had this huge transformation in a lot of ways, right?

MEL4EVER: Yeah, in one month it’ll be three years since I started hormones. I got sober in 2019, and every waking day that I had spent sober, I was like, “my sobriety is contingent on my gender and my gender is not boy.” I didn’t know that I was going to transition and do all of that. I just kind of let it happen. I focused on what is the most affirming thing that I could do today, which was grow your hair out, get titties, look cunt. But sobriety was contingent on gender, and gender was contingent on starting an art career. I needed some grounding force. 

DRESDEN: It’s so interesting because I don’t know if you ever watched Glee, but if you did, Kurt, at one point is talking to Sue Sylvester because he thinks he’s gay. Obviously Kurt is a huge faggot, but Sue is like, “How do you even know you’re gay until you kiss another boy?” For me, I wasn’t sure if I was gay for a long time. I’m calling myself trans, but I’m not on hormones. I am kind of in this weird gray area. I just think it’s interesting to hear about the process of people figuring out who they are. It’s not always a clean narrative line. 

MEL4EVER: If I may, you’re a tranny?

DRESDEN: Yeah, I don’t have tits, but I am a tranny. It’s hard because sometimes I don’t feel trans enough for the dolls, but I’m obviously not a gay guy so I don’t really fit in with them either. Not to make this about me, but it’s just something on my mind that I feel like you address in this album.

MEL4EVER: Totally. It is, because I even had my they era, you know what I mean? 

DRESDEN: I’m in my they era. So, in “She Culture,” there’s so many lyrics that cut right to the core. “There’s something ain’t right with me, there’s something that ain’t right with me.” And then, “I’m a sick fuck, get my dick sucked.” All of that just really resonated with me. Let’s start with this song.

MEL4EVER: So my friend, DogMan Jones, sent me a beat and I just spit on that track, honey. That’s how it started. And I was in the studio and I was like, “I’m a sick fuck, I’m a sick fuck” And then I was like, “I’m a sick sick fuck, get my dick sucked, nip tuck,” and I was like, “Wait, this is cunt.” Dog Man came up with, “Something ain’t right with me.” The song started taking shape from there. That night, I had a dream and I remember writing down the lyrics and track name to that song. Later, I checked my phone and the only thing I had written was “She Culture.” It sounds crazy, but that literally came to me in a dream.

DRESDEN: Wow.

MEL4EVER: My mind unfolded all of these different dimensions of what those words mean to me. I wanted “J.K. Rowling” going into “She Culture” to be like my innocence is lost, something goes wrong, and then “She Culture” starts, and she’s a fully-formed monster. She’s coming to bite bitches heads off. But behind closed doors she’s like, “Wait, why did I just bite their head off?”

DRESDEN: She’s a romantic at heart. Which kind of brings us to the visuals.

MEL4EVER: Me and my friend Mikey Harmon were talking about a video and I was like, “I want to rip my teeth out, I want to saw off my limbs and make crazy new appendages,” which is kind of what I’ve been doing in slow motion on hormones. So the appendages are my big, ginormous tits and shrinking penis.

DRESDEN: Well, yes.

MEL4EVER: I wanted to tell the story about someone mutilating themselves, playing on that idea of transness, of self-mutilating and turning our bodies into weapons. Really, at the end of the day, how I understand transness is it’s actually protection of myself, it’s protection of my mind, protection of my sanity. It’s armor at the end of the day. That’s what I wanted to portray in the video. I wanted it to be disgusting. And no makeup. I wanted to look awful.

DRESDEN: Well, you still looked cunt. I do want to circle back to something, though. So you talked about how this is tranny shit, not hyperpop. Is hyperpop not a term you want to be associated with?

MEL4EVER: When hyperpop entered the zeitgeist it was, at least in my opinion, a category for music critics and young artists to categorize themselves and have a sense of community. That being said, lots of the major hyperpop artists who defined the genre never uttered those words, like SOPHIE and Ayesha Erotica and Slayyyter. They never said those words. They were simply making music that felt right. It’s the same for me. Everyone’s like, “You do hyperpop.” I’m like, “Do I?” I just make really intense music and play with vocal processing because I have vocal dysphoria. Ain’t nobody want to hear baritone over “Daddy As Fuck.” So it’s not that I don’t want to be associated with it, it’s that I don’t understand it. At the end of the day, this is trannies playing around in their room.

DRESDEN: That makes sense. I want to talk about “So Cool.” Since I’m in Berlin, I’ve been going out to these raves and sometimes I have fun and sometimes I feel like a freak. I’ll see these hot gay guys making out on the dance floor, get sad, and then go into the dark room and piss in someone’s mouth. All that is to say, your songs are about what it’s like for a trans woman to be dating a guy who is not comfortable being seen in public. Does “So Cool” come from personal experience?

MEL4EVER: Yes. I was working at a club as a bottle girl during the time and I had just started giving girl. This guy came up to me and was so into me, and so sweet, and I was like, “Oh no, he doesn’t know that I’m trans. Awkward.” But my bulge was hanging out so looking back I’m like, “He knew, honey.” He asked me to come home with him and by the time we’re in his bed, I’m like, “Bitch, it’s on. You’re the girl, action.”

DRESDEN: I’m freaking out. I read that you got pulled on stage at a Kesha concert.

MEL4EVER: I was at Kesha when I was 18 years old in Atlanta. I was hammied. I had like five shots of vodka and she was fucked up. Kesha’s like, “I need help on stage.” I had planned my outfit to get her attention and I was ready for it. I got close to the stage. So during “Grow a Pear,” she goes “I just can’t date a dude with a vag.” And she pulled me up on stage, Saran-wrapped me to a chair and then sang that song to me. After that, I just assumed the role of a famous person, deadass. I was in high school and I was like, “You bitches can’t touch this.”

DRESDEN: Holy shit. Kesha was everything in high school. Let’s just be clear.

MEL4EVER: Absolutely. That was really formative.

 

DRESDEN: Talk to me about the first time you performed live and where you are now. 

MEL4EVER: The first time I performed live I was throwing up on the street in the Lower East Side. I had booked a show to showcase five songs that I wrote. I posted about it and it sold out. It was a 150-person capacity first show and I was the headliner. I was really confused and it was really an intense baptism by fire situation. The first year was me going absolutely ham and really doing an interpretive seizure of how the music makes me feel. And recently, I’ve wanted to step my pussy up.

DRESDEN: I’ve seen you live several times. The way you thrash is actually something I really relate to.  

MEL4EVER: Exactly. I really liked being unrehearsed because it keeps this spontaneity. I don’t even know what I’m doing until it’s happened. Sometimes I’m even gagged. Like, “you ate that, bitch.” Alec [Cohen, the choreographer] has helped build structure around that. When we added dancers and choreography, it changed my entire life. I wasn’t completely out of breath in the first three minutes. Knowing when to go ham on the vocals and when to let the backing track ride so you can bump is all very important. Also, having dancers is so fucking fun. I’ve never shared the stage before, like I’m fucking Bette Midler or something. It’s like, “Girl, you’re at Elsewhere, you can share the stage.” At the end of the day, we’re all thesbian faggots and we just want lights, camera, action. Even if there’s two people in front of you, you’re always going to give it.

DRESDEN: Of course. I want to talk about “Go Bitch!” I love this song. “This is the girl I’ll die with. The last time you touched me, I was screaming, this is my chick.” Is this drawing from a specific experience?

MEL4EVER: Yes. I started having sex with this guy regularly and it was my first fuck buddy for girlhood. I was like, “this is so cunt.” And I had convinced myself that we were going to date, but then it turns out that his friends don’t know that he hooks up with trans girls. And there was no possible way we were going to be seen together as an item. A lot of these songs are firsts for me. I was really upset by it because I was like, “Wait, what? You’re so into me, we can’t even talk without you getting hard. Why won’t you just date me?” I got really fucking angry and this song is basically like “how fucking dare you?” But then, “This is my chick, this the one I vibe with,” is basically like a love spell that I decided to add in.

DRESDEN: I need to use that spell.

MEL4EVER: I’m trying to conjure these feelings out of him. I have this thing where I come if I’m getting fucked and someone says, “I love you.”

DRESDEN: Every time? Like, without fail?

MEL4EVER: Well, if I want to come, I’m like, “Tell me you love me.” It’s so, so unwell.

DRESDEN: That’s heaven, actually.

MEL4EVER: It’s so cunt. And like, “That’s the last time you’ll leave me because I’m coming for blood.” Because now he pissed me off. And it’s just part of the larger narrative of us deserving better.

DRESDEN: It’s so true. These men are pieces of shit and love stinks. I’ve just had a string of disappointing interactions out here so I’m kind of fucking over it right now, although I’m not. I’m just having all this weird sex. Anyway, “I HATE YOU,” the final song, is about a family member, and it’s a really sad song. For me, this song hits really hard because my dad recently committed suicide and it’s been really painful. And it’s kind of the reason I came out to Berlin, to escape from it. We weren’t close beforehand, so in ways I hated him. Can you tell me about the inspiration and process of writing this song?

MEL4EVER: Totally. So while it started out being about one person, it ended up being about many different family members. It’s about when you are disappointed by somebody that you were close to, whether or not you are actually emotionally close to them or not, you share blood with them. So biologically speaking, you do have some kind of claim or pull to this person. And when things go wrong, no matter how much you don’t want that to affect you, most of the time it does. So my brother died of an overdose.

DRESDEN: I’m sorry.

MEL4EVER: I didn’t talk to my parents for three-and-a-half years. I was filled with so much anger and rage.

DRESDEN: Right.

MEL4EVER: The song is about looking at these close biological ties, and reckoning with the fact of, yes, you’re related to them, yes, you can fucking hate them, and you can still have some kind of love for this person. Relationships are a two-way street. That song was just a really sore fucking bruise. It’s really hard to perform that song. I tried to make it silly so that it didn’t feel as painful, but at the end of the day, it’s really painful. And a lot of queer people have a complex relationship with their family.

DRESDEN: Of course. It’s such a good closer. I think that’s a good segue into talking about She Culture Part Two. What comes next after this fabulous EP? Tell me everything.

MEL4EVER: So I’ve been in L.A. for a couple of weeks. I moved here because New York wanted my soul for the keeping and it felt like I was giving up on my Carrie Bradshaw, but at the end of the day, I moved to save myself. I can’t go to the grocery store and have to use almond butter as a weapon anymore. I wanted the physical protection of a car. And a lot of my collaborators live out here, so it made sense. I’m an Alabama girl, so I like the sunshine. I have like, three demos so far for the new project. Right now, the working titles are “Pervert,” “Slop,” or “She Culture Part Two.” I’m in my love, happy, sexy, Slurpee era. I want to make songs that I will be excited to perform and sing because I’m focused on happiness right now. I don’t want to have to perform all this angry music. Happiness to me is sexual liberation and personal freedom, things I was told were terrible. I’ve written a song about getting fucked so good that I start speaking in tongues. I’ve written one about girls getting blow jobs. I’m obsessed with making out and oral sex.

DRESDEN: I love making out.

MEL4EVER: I know. Making out is way more intimate to me than a dick in my ass. You know what I mean?

DRESDEN: Oh, absolutely. I can verify that as someone who had two dicks in their ass this afternoon and didn’t make out.

MEL4EVER: Absolutely. And I’m trying to focus on more pop melodies. I used to shit on pop, but there is something so amazing about an infectious melody. 

DRESDEN: I have that with “She Culture” though. I’ve been listening to that song over and over. 

MEL4EVER: Oh my god, I love that.

DRESDEN: I just had one question about the end of “I HATE YOU.” You say, “A warm embrace will bring it back,” or something. Are you saying there can be healing?

MEL4EVER: I don’t know if there’s healing in the future. But I mean, of course there’s healing. There is something powerful about physical touch. And let’s say whenever me and my siblings would get in fights when we were young, my mom would make us hug. And after the hug you’re like, “That was silly. Whoopsie. I’m sorry I kicked you in the nuts.” 

DRESDEN: Okay, fab. Thank you for taking the time to talk to me.

MEL4EVER: Thank you. I know it’s evening for you now, so go do something fun.

DRESDEN: I’m going to smoke weed and watch a movie.

MEL4EVER: Sickening.

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Styling, hair and makeup: @badboyrory

Clothing: @mindblownnyc and @iGirl

Photography assistant: @pospiando.ok

Lighting: @crimson_catalyst