“I’m a Nepo Maybe”: John Owen Lowe, in Conversation With Rob Lowe

John Owen Lowe doesn’t feel qualified to claim nepo baby status. But after penning three of film and television legend Rob Lowe’s hit shows, including co-producing the just-released second season of Netflix’s Unstable, he’s ready to step out of his father’s shadow. In the workplace comedy, the father-son duo play a different father-son duo trying to revive both a plummeting tech company and their rocky relationship, sometimes resorting to the absurd. “And unlike this interview, the pace is airtight,” John says of the series, as they veer off-topic to talk meme literacy, college admission scandals, presidential debates, and why you’re only a true nepo baby if you have two famous parents.

JOHN OWEN LOWE: I think we’re interviewing each other in this one, chief.

ROB LOWE: All right, let’s go, chief. I want to start off with the tried and true questions. What’s it like to work with me?

JOHNNY: Gosh, I’m glad you asked because no one has taken the time to really hone in on this yet. I say that facetiously, but it’s lovely to work with you. You’re not going to be around forever, but film is forever, baby. We’ll have this. Or if you’re ever missing me, you can just turn on some Unstable and get our viewership numbers up. I have learned a lot from you, that’s for sure. Like, actually, you’re going to want to slow down or walk a little faster there, buddy. Or don’t wear that color palette because it’s going to blow you out. Or make sure that they’re powdering your face because you get a little shiny in the afternoon.

ROB: These are all really good pro tips.

JOHNNY: Yeah. Finding the right times to take a quick nap in the trailer or go to the gym if you have a long day, keep the blood pumping. I’ve learned a lot from you. What have you learned from me?

ROB: Well, the story of parents and children is you can’t help but re-see your own life through their journey. Particularly when their journey is in the business that you are also in, or were in at their age. I marvel at how quickly you’ve learned so much, how good you are so much earlier than I ever was. I have a sideline interest and glee in you discovering all of these nuggets of knowledge as you start crushing it in your journey.

JOHNNY: Very sweet. What is the thing about me that frustrates you the most on set?

ROB: On set or just in general? I have one for right now.

JOHNNY: I was very clear about my question. But I am curious to hear about the one right now, so get it off your chest.

ROB: I think you need to focus on the brevity of your answers.

JOHNNY: I’m tired, man. Concision is difficult when you’re tired. You start to ramble.

ROB: That’s the problem. You knew you had this interview today, what were you doing last night that made you tired today?

JOHNNY: I knew it. I’d like to put on the record that he’s now using this as an opportunity to fish for information about my personal life. 

ROB: God forbid I know anything about that.

JOHNNY: So then answer the question, what about me frustrates you the most on set?

ROB: That you’re not a morning person and that your energy is low in the morning, but mine is as well.

JOHNNY: You’re frustrated by the genes that we both have.

ROB: Fair enough, but I’ve learned how to show up with my professional energy ready to go. You haven’t quite got there yet. And I think it’s as simple as embracing more espresso. 

JOHNNY: If I drink too much coffee, it hurts my stomach. I have a weak disposition, man.

ROB: You are definitely a little bit of a hothouse flower.

JOHNNY: For sure. I only learned that about myself as I got older. I am a sensitive flower.

ROB: Fight it.

JOHNNY: No, I think I’m going to embrace it. Ask me anything.

ROB: Let’s see… what did you do last night?

JOHNNY: Okay, no. This is Interview Magazine. Have some respect.

ROB: Respect? I’ve been on the cover twice. Don’t talk to me about respect for Interview Magazine.

JOHNNY: You just big dogged me right now in front of everyone, huh?

ROB: I knew Andy Warhol, mother effer.

JOHNNY: As penance, they have to invite us both to be on the cover. 

ROB: If you could meet anybody, who would you like to meet?

JOHNNY: Dead or alive?

ROB: Let’s go with alive.

JOHNNY: What a fascinating question. I’m trying to think of a writer that I really respect. I’ve honestly been fortunate. I’ve met Aaron Sorkin, and Bo Burnham, who I really admire. Steve Zallian would be cool. Maybe like, Donald Glover. I think I’ve met Tina Fey, but I’d like to sit down and pick her brain. People who have the career path that I aspire to have, who get to express themselves through the work that they write. And then I would lastly just say, probably the Hawk Tuah girl.

ROB: Don’t cut that.

JOHNNY: That’s a joke.

ROB: I know it is. By the way, are you impressed that I know who the Hawk Tuah girl is?

JOHNNY: I’d like it to go on record that I didn’t know who the Hawk Tuah girl was. You had to inform me of that. I am not as internet literate as you at times, it turns out.

ROB: Well, by the time this comes out, nobody will know that reference at all.

JOHNNY: Wait, who have you not met that you would want to meet? Is there anyone?

ROB: Not many. And that’s one of the great things about being—

JOHNNY: A famous person.

ROB: No, being around as long as I have. I mean, I met Cary Grant and Jimmy Stewart, for god’s sakes. I met Betty Davis.

JOHNNY: We’ve had a fascinating life. I remember being 13 and meeting Joe Biden. Met Kobe Bryant. I’ve met a lot of my heroes. Would you count what we did as meeting Tiger Woods? Maybe that’s the one.

ROB: No, that doesn’t count as meeting. Tiger’s a really good one. That would be super sick. Okay, do you have a favorite moment from Unstable season two? Whatever you did last night, if you were with somebody last night—

JOHNNY: Enough.

ROB: A, who was the person, and B, what part of Unstable would you show them?

JOHNNY: I hate this bit that you’re doing. I’m going to cheat and say a few moments. I’m incredibly partial to episode seven when you and I play Ron Tabasco and Jason Dargan, respectively, and our characters decide they need to become fake realtors at a realtors’ convention in order to adopt new personas and hide from their identities. That was a very funny concept to all of us in the writers room. Then I’m really fond of when Fred Armisen’s character, Leslie, becomes the mind hunter, which is his version of becoming Ellis’s watchdog detective, and he starts to limp with a cane. In episode six, which is the one that I penned, he whipped me with the cane, and that was one of my favorite moments to shoot because Fred Armisen is the sweetest man in the world. He was so worried about hurting me. I remember they were like, “Can we put a knee pad on you?” I was like, “I don’t need a knee pad.” They were like, “Well, Fred requested it. He doesn’t want to hurt you.” 

ROB: I noticed that all of your choices highlight the absurdist nature of comedy. That is a flavor of comedy that I particularly love, and it’s a hallmark of 30 Rock, Parks and Rec, Always Sunny. What they have in common is that they are not afraid to be absurd.

JOHNNY: And unlike this interview, the pace is airtight. Our show is quick, which we love. I know both you and I share the view that when something moves fast, it’s our favorite hallmark of a good comedy. There’s a high likelihood you’ll miss jokes and you may have to rewatch it or just pay attention.

ROB: I think Parks and Rec, at its best, you would’ve sworn the episode was 15 minutes long.

JOHNNY: I have a question. How does Unstable rank in the echelon of all the projects you’ve done? If you had to do a top five Rob Lowe projects, does Unstable crack the top five? 

ROB: It does.

JOHNNY: What is the top five?

ROB: Do I have to rank them or can I just give you five?

JOHNNY: Give me five. Ranking is insane.

ROB: Okay. West Wing. The Grinder. Unstable. Outsiders. About Last Night. Let me ask you a question. How many of those have you seen?

JOHNNY: I’ve seen Unstable, I love The Grinder. I’ve seen The Outsiders, but that is forced viewing in most middle schools. I have not seen About Last Night and I have not done a full watch of The West Wing. Like I said, Aaron Sorkin’s a badass, so if I were to do a full watch, it would be strictly to see Sorkin’s writing. I’m also an Allison Janney fan.

ROB: Who isn’t?

JOHNNY: And Martin Sheen’s a boss.

ROB: If you were to write an episode of Unstable where you went to New York and had dinner with someone, who would it be and what would that night have been like?

JOHNNY: I’ll have to think on that.

ROB: I’m trying to figure out what you did last night. I really am.

JOHNNY: Also, I just got a text. Let me read it to you because it’s very eloquent. “Congrats, got to love the solo Fallon.” Who do you think that’s from? A man of few words that we both know very well.

ROB: Fred Armisen.

JOHNNY: More personal.

ROB: Matthew.

JOHNNY: Right.

ROB: How long would you last in your brother Matthew’s world? Could you have passed the bar?

JOHNNY: No way. I am a great test-taker, but no.

ROB: Let me ask you this. If getting into Stanford required me Photoshopping your face onto a fake rowing machine… 

JOHNNY: Yeah, we could do that. We could throw down with some—I’m pivoting. So I have spoken about a desire to exist outside of having done projects with you and in your shadow. I’m going to skip the obvious part of the question, which is, what are the advantages to having a relative who works successfully in entertainment? I think we all know that doors are opened. But how do you think it makes it a little trickier for me, having a famous dad in entertainment?

ROB: I think we could tell more stories together. I think there’s a reason why you were valuable on The Grinder, and wrote a fantastic script on 9-1-1: Lone Star.

JOHNNY: Five of them. Including a crossover. Co-penned with Jeff.

ROB: I think your script remains the highest rated episode we’ve ever done. There’s a lot more we could do, but it would be really healthy and good for you to do something away from me. I just don’t want it to be too good.

JOHNNY: Totally fair.

ROB: I got one for you. When this show drops, who will you watch the first episode with?

JOHNNY: I actually hate watching myself with other people around. I don’t mind doing it alone, or if it’s one of my closest friends, but even then it’s a little cagey. But the notion of thinking a fun way to spend the night is to invite somebody to watch me, that makes my skin crawl. I would never ever do that. So I invite you all to watch it without me and then we can all come together and talk about it as one. 

ROB: Spoiler alert, this new season ends with my character, Ellis, announcing on an infomercial where he’s also selling merch that he’s going to run for president.

JOHNNY: Yep.

ROB: What are you most looking forward to in a potential season three for your character as his dad runs for president?

JOHNNY: I think it’s the funniest opportunity we had yet in the show to depict Jackson with literally zero personal space. Look at what a political campaign does to families. They excavate your entire personal life. They just destroy any sense of privacy you might have. Jackson’s character has revolved around having his own identity outside of his dad, and we’ve now created a circumstance in which it may forever become impossible.

ROB: How do you feel about your character potentially becoming the first boy?

JOHNNY: First boy? Yes, of course. It’s a very exciting concept to me. I’d like to see Jackson come into his own in that situation and maybe become a little bit of a star in his own right. 

ROB: There should be first boy, first girl debates, the siblings of the candidates—

JOHNNY: First baby.

ROB: Yes. First baby debates. And we have two additions to the show, Iris Apatow and Lamorne Morris. Lamorne got nominated for an Emmy for his amazing work in Fargo. If you were to ever be nominated for an award, would you write a speech or would you wing it?

JOHNNY: First of all, we did win an award, and I did give a speech. We won an Environmental Media Award for the first season of Unstable, and I spoke at the EMAs, which—

ROB: No, no, no. We knew we won it before the event. I’m talking about the award where you’re standing there and they’re saying, “The award for best nepo baby goes to—”

JOHNNY: Okay. By the way, I heard the phrase “nepo maybe” today for the first time. I think I fall under the category of a nepo maybe.

ROB: So good.

JOHNNY: Let’s unpack this for a second. Is it written in stone that in order to be a nepo baby, you have to have two parents in the zeitgeist?

ROB: I always thought that was baked into the premise. But why do you need two?

JOHNNY: Denzel’s son, John David Washington, I don’t think his mom’s an actor. So there’s a few examples without. But if your parent is Denzel, it doesn’t matter. You know what I mean? 

ROB: He can do whatever he wants.

JOHNNY: But unless you are one of the single most famous actors of all time, in order to be properly categorized as a nepo baby, you have to have two. So I’m a nepo maybe.

ROB: Well, would you write a speech or not?

JOHNNY: I think I’m losing the nepo maybe award, so I’m not really worried about it.

ROB: For sure. You’re definitely losing that, which is good news.

JOHNNY: Great news. But I think I would write bullet points, similarly to how I—

ROB: I got it. I got it.

JOHNNY: Yeah, we don’t need to talk about my writing process.

ROB: All right. What’s your last question for me? Do you have a gotcha question? Let’s do this like professionals.

JOHNNY: Yeah.

ROB: You have to say to me, “There’s just one last thing I need to ask you before we go.” You need to start with that, because that’s how they do it. And then you shithammer me.

JOHNNY: Okay. Marry one, kiss one, kill one.

ROB: Sure.

JOHNNY: Aaron Sorkin.

ROB: This is already great.

JOHNNY: Ryan Murphy, Lorne Michaels.

ROB: Ooh.

JOHNNY: And I’ll change it to marry, kiss, slap.

ROB: Oh my god. I think you actually made it really easy. I don’t think it’s a far stretch of the imagination for people to understand that there’s a possibility that Ryan Murphy might enjoy being slapped by me. So he’s getting slapped.

JOHNNY: It sounds like you mean in a playful way, perhaps?

ROB: Hey, this is my answer, not yours.

JOHNNY: Okay.

ROB: And I’m going to kiss Aaron because he kind of has dreamy eyes.

JOHNNY: Nice.

ROB: I’m going to marry Lorne because he’s the king of New York and then I could be the queen.

JOHNNY: Well done. Your turn. One last question.

ROB: One last question I have to ask you just before you go, my editors are making me ask this. Really, I have no personal investment in this at all, but I can’t let you go without asking. Who did you have dinner with last night? And what did you do?

JOHNNY: I had dinner with my friend Mitchell from Stanford, and that’s all you get to know. I don’t know what else I did. I think I went to sleep early.

ROB: I don’t believe you.

JOHNNY: Okay. It’s been fun. I hope we didn’t go too off the rails.