Ariana Grande and Nicole Kidman Are Trying to Keep It Together

Ariana Grande has lived life in fast forward. At 32, her time in the spotlight has been as turbulent as it’s been triumphant, testing her resolve in ways few can understand. In Wicked: For Good, she’s back as Glinda, the role that earned her an Oscar nomination and helped shift her public image: less untouchable pop star, more endearing theater kid. Between early-morning shoots for Focker In-Law, she caught up with Nicole Kidman for a therapeutic chat about fame, burnout, and why the best cure for chaos is a long bath.

———

SUNDAY 8 PM OCT. 19, 2025 NYC

ARIANA GRANDE: Oh my goodness. Hi.

NICOLE KIDMAN: Hi! That’s a nice view. Where are you?

GRANDE: You look beautiful. I’m in New York. Where are you?

KIDMAN: Just got back to Nashville.

GRANDE: How are you?

KIDMAN: I’m hanging in there. The last time we saw each other was, I think, at the National Board of Review? It was on one of those red carpets. One day we have to have dinner.

GRANDE: I would really love that.

KIDMAN: I’ve heard you’re really fun.

GRANDE: [Laughs] Really? That’s so nice. Whenever we crossed paths last year it was such a treat. All of a sudden we were at, like, six different things in a row together and I felt like I had a friend.

KIDMAN: I was just thrilled for you. When I saw Wicked with my girls, we actually booked out the whole row here in Nashville and it was just crazy. People were cheering, and it was just really, really fun. So that was exciting, right? For that to take off. You didn’t expect that?

GRANDE: It was very exciting. I don’t think there’s any way to prepare yourself mentally for that kind of thing. Of course we loved it and I’ve always been such a huge fan of the show. But while making it, I just had my blinders on and I was too scared to think about what might be on the other side. I just wanted to pay attention to Glinda as much as I could.

KIDMAN: But you’re so funny.

GRANDE: Thank you.

KIDMAN: It’s really hard to be funny like that, especially in that kind of film. It’s very controlled. You’re not riffing or improvising, right?

GRANDE: Well, there was a fair amount of both.

KIDMAN: Really?

GRANDE: Yeah, there was so much improv actually. And it was so fun, because we would be good students and devour the script and get the version exactly how it is on paper. And then—

KIDMAN: You could play.

GRANDE: What a privilege to work with [director] Jon [M.] Chu, who just trusted us. We would just play and play and ultimately had no idea what the edit would end up being.

KIDMAN: That’s fascinating.

GRANDE: It was so fun and inspiring, and also almost jealous-making, because it’s like, “Oh, you could try all these choices on Broadway if you’re doing eight shows a week. But in the movie, you only get to live with one version forever.

KIDMAN: Yeah.

GRANDE: I want to see the whole Bowen Yang sizzle reel of all the things he tried. I’m desperate for that content to come out.

KIDMAN: Would you ever do Broadway?

GRANDE: I would. I love theater so much, and I actually did a Broadway show when I was 13 years old. I was a chorus girl.

KIDMAN: You did?

GRANDE: Yeah, 13. I had a few little lines, and it was the most incredible training. And to sing songs written by Jason Robert Brown—it’s so beautiful and so challenging. I feel like that’s where I developed stamina. But I would love to be onstage again.

KIDMAN: But it’s such a massive commitment when you sign on, particularly if it’s a musical, right? On Broadway, you’re looking at a year at least.

GRANDE: I suppose. But it’s funny, because I thought that’s what I would be doing with my life when I was a young girl.

KIDMAN: Wow.

GRANDE: I want to see you in something in New York.

KIDMAN: I’d never do a musical. It’s just finding the right time and finding the right play.

GRANDE: Yeah.

KIDMAN: I always say time is the enemy, because in my imagination I would be doing an incredible Macbeth, and then I’d also be doing Hedda Gabler, and then I’d be doing Who’s Afraid of Virginia Woolf?

GRANDE: Oh my god!

KIDMAN: The idea is great, and then the actual discipline of doing it and finding the right director—

GRANDE: Well, if and when, I would be the first person there. [Laughs]

KIDMAN: Right back at you, girl. But your schedule right now, is it insane?

GRANDE: It is. I’m finishing this Fockers sequel right now in New York, and I’m really enjoying this role and this cast and—

KIDMAN: Who’s in the cast?

GRANDE: It’s with the original Meet the Parents crew, so it’s Mr. De Niro, Ben Stiller, Teri Polo, and some new additions—Skyler Gisondo and Beanie Feldstein. Everyone is so incredible. And Blythe Danner’s here as well.

KIDMAN: Wow.

GRANDE: It’s such a special experience, and I’m really loving getting to work with these people and this character. And then we’re simultaneously doing Wicked promo on the weekends—we just recorded a concert in L.A. So it was a little bit of bouncing around, but I feel so carbonated by gratitude and—

KIDMAN: Carbonated by gratitude? [Laughs]

GRANDE: I do.

KIDMAN: Did you make that up?

GRANDE: I suppose.

KIDMAN: That’s a great phrase!

GRANDE: Well, I—

KIDMAN: We should all be carbonated by gratitude.

GRANDE: I think that gratitude and nervousness are both very carbonating, and as artists we have to balance those things. They’re both great fuel and wonderful energy to keep us going.

KIDMAN: Yeah.

GRANDE: So it’s a kooky time, but it’s beautiful. How about you? I can’t imagine.

KIDMAN: I produce and then star in a show called Lioness, which I’m doing right now, but we shot the sequel to Practical Magic over the summer in London, which was so fun.

GRANDE: Oh my god.

KIDMAN: Sandy Bullock and I, and then Joey King and Maisie [Williams]—we had an incredible cast. A lot of times I don’t have fun when I’m filming because it’s more—

GRANDE: Emotionally draining.

KIDMAN: Yeah. But I have such a strong relationship with all those women, so I felt protected and loved. It was just very, very safe.

GRANDE: That’s so beautiful. There’s nothing quite like it, is there?

KIDMAN: No. And to come back to something so many years later and go, “We’re still able to get this movie made at a big big studio like Warner’s,” and that Sandy and I were able to produce it and get it made, is insane.

GRANDE: That’s so inspiring. And also the friendship. Isn’t that just such a special gift to love your cast and to be inspired by and feel safe with your scene partners?

KIDMAN: Yeah. So, Wicked. We saw the trailer and we were like, “Let’s go!” When does it come out?

GRANDE: I think it’s November 21st.

KIDMAN: Okay. Cool.

GRANDE: I’ve been doing a countdown on Instagram for like a year now, and I forgot the date. I don’t know why I said, “I think.” I know.

KIDMAN: [Laughs] You have a lot of things in your head.

GRANDE: I know that it’s November 21st.

KIDMAN: Okay, good. So just to be a fly on the wall, what’s your day like tomorrow?

GRANDE: Tomorrow?

KIDMAN: Yeah. Do you work out? Do you meditate?

GRANDE: Well—

KIDMAN: Give us your secrets.

GRANDE: Tomorrow I have an early call time—not too early. Tomorrow I have to leave at 5:30.

KIDMAN: What?!

GRANDE: It’s not that bad.

KIDMAN: That to me is insanely early.

GRANDE: There’s just a little bit of a drive, that’s why. But I’ll try to wake up and get some steps in before—I’ll try to be gentle. If I’m not feeling like I have the energy, I won’t. And then I’ll do a little medi in the car. I use my drives to either listen to music in my headphones and zone out a little bit or do a meditation, or both, depending on how long the drive is. And then I’ll shoot, not that this means anything to anyone reading, scene 37 and 38 tomorrow.

KIDMAN: [Laughs] Do you want me to run lines with you?

GRANDE: Yes, please. [Laughs] And on the lunch break I will probably go over other things. We’ve been trying to finalize this Wicked special, so they’ve been sending us a lot of things to peek at.

KIDMAN: But you don’t nap, say, at lunchtime?

GRANDE: I feel like a nap for me is good night. I am not a person who can nap very well. Are you a nap person?

KIDMAN: Mm-hmm.

GRANDE: I wish I could nap.

KIDMAN: Twenty minutes and I can come back strong.

GRANDE: That’s amazing.

KIDMAN: Yeah. I actually wind down at about 2 p.m. where I go, “Oh my gosh. I haven’t had a nap yet.”

GRANDE: I have that sensation as well, and I wish I could tell myself that I should nap, and that I knew how. But what I do is I just have more coffee and get my eighth wind.

KIDMAN: And then when you come home, do you have a hot bath? Or do you get on the phone, or what do you do?

GRANDE: Yes!

KIDMAN: You don’t doom scroll?

GRANDE: First I’m in the bath.

KIDMAN: Yeah.

GRANDE: There’s some doom scrolling in the day at some points.

KIDMAN: But not in the bath?

GRANDE: Not in the bath. I’m usually FaceTiming my best friends, to be honest. I like to put my laptop on the edge and touch base with Doug or Courtney or Aaron.

KIDMAN: Cute.

GRANDE: Other times I’ll just be submerged and silent. I’m a Cancer, so I love the water.

KIDMAN: You’re a cancer, so it’s also hard to get you out of your shell. You don’t play as much?

GRANDE: I have a soft shell.

KIDMAN: But you’re a homebody?

GRANDE: Yes, but I like to walk and meander.

KIDMAN: And do you have an animal?

GRANDE: I have many. I love animals. Wait, before we get too far away from it, what is your sign?

KIDMAN: Gemini on the cusp of Cancer.

GRANDE: I love Geminis! My mom’s a Gemini.

KIDMAN: [Laughs] People usually go, “Uh-oh.” But I’m sort of cusp of Cancer, so I have this weird duality.

GRANDE: Yes.

KIDMAN: Geminis have a duality anyway, but because I have that Cancer—I wouldn’t know what my risings are and all that sort of stuff.

GRANDE: It’s a lot to keep track of.

KIDMAN: But I know my Chinese zodiac. I’m the sheep. Do you know what you are?

GRANDE: I think I’m a rooster.

KIDMAN: Rooster?

GRANDE: Yes. I believe I’m the cock, if you will. [Laughs]

KIDMAN: That’s not bad. [Laughs] Ari! You’re hilarious.

GRANDE: Thank you.

KIDMAN: And I’m just the sheep.

GRANDE: That makes so much sense. I love that you can see both sides, the Gemini and the cusp of Cancer, so you have the ability to feel everything under the sun.

KIDMAN: And then born on the solstice, so.

GRANDE: Wow. How powerful.

KIDMAN: Weird.

GRANDE: Beautiful. I forgot we were working right now.

KIDMAN: Now you’re actually in the bath on the phone with me.

GRANDE: Yeah. [Laughs]

KIDMAN: Which I’m happy to do some night if you need a chat.

GRANDE: I would love that.

KIDMAN: I’ll be in the bath, too. That’s my sanctuary. I love talking on the phone. And then I try to read, because I’m not reading as much. I used to read voraciously.

GRANDE: It must be hard to find that time.

KIDMAN: Well, we read scripts, right?

GRANDE: Yeah.

KIDMAN: And we’re always studying, but the chance to actually get lost in a novel is—I’m actually reading Reese Witherspoon. She wrote a book.

GRANDE: I will start it.

KIDMAN: Yeah, it’s a great thriller. I’m very, very proud of her for that. So, you’ve got a tour coming up.

GRANDE: Oh yes, I suppose I do. [Laughs] We’re doing a small amount compared to what I used to do back in the day.

KIDMAN: What is this small amount?

GRANDE: I think it’s 45 shows.

KIDMAN: Wow. That doesn’t sound that small.

GRANDE: It’s not that small, but it’s at least half of what I used to do.

KIDMAN: Really?

GRANDE: Yes.

KIDMAN: That’s insane.

GRANDE: But I feel really grateful and excited about it in a way that feels so different to me.

KIDMAN: How come?

GRANDE: Well, I’ve just been healing my relationship to music and touring over the past couple of years.

KIDMAN: What does that mean? That’s really interesting.

GRANDE: Well, I think—this is hard. [Laughs]

KIDMAN: You can say, “Shut up. I don’t want to talk about it.” This can be talked about in the bath conversation.

GRANDE: No, I could never. I think parts of it we’ll reserve for the bathtub conversation.

KIDMAN: Okay, yeah.

GRANDE: But for now—I spent a lot of time redoing my system when it comes to making music. With Eternal Sunshine, that felt like a very different experience for me. I think the time away from it helped me reclaim certain pieces of it and put certain feelings that maybe belonged to my relationship to fame, or the things that come with being an artist, in a box somewhere else, and say, “Okay. I don’t have to let go of this thing that I love. I can just put those things over here, and not lose sight of my gifts.” So I’ve just been taking baby steps towards healing my relationship to music and touring, and I think my time with Glinda and with acting really helped me build the strength to be able to do that. But I can’t express how grateful I am. I think it just held some traumas for me before, and I feel those dissipating, and that is such an extraordinarily beautiful thing.

KIDMAN: Right.

GRANDE: There was a tricky adjustment period in the very beginning, when my pop career took off the way that it did. And I hope this doesn’t sound ungrateful, but it’s just a big adjustment when your life changes in that very drastic way.

KIDMAN: Yeah.

GRANDE: I’m so grateful to be able to do what I love. I just wasn’t expecting certain pieces of it.

KIDMAN: Well, you’re very young, and then suddenly you’re put into this fishbowl and everything is dissected. It starts to get very, very difficult, and then you overthink it and then you get scared and then you get hurt, and then you go, “Now I don’t want to go out. I don’t want to venture into this world.” I get it.

GRANDE: Yeah.

KIDMAN: It’s just a constant push-pull. But I think that exists for everyone. I’m raising teenage girls right now, and it’s fascinating. I think they have an armor that we didn’t get.

GRANDE: Right.

KIDMAN: Or that I certainly didn’t get, because there was no social media. The very, very young now have already gone, “We know exactly how to handle this.” They don’t take a lot of things personally. They shrug it off.

GRANDE: And just make a joke and move on. I’m like, “Wow. Give me a little dose of that. Hello!”

KIDMAN: Yeah. [Laughs] We need that lesson.

GRANDE: I used to actually do that quite a bit and it became so exhausting. I felt like, “This is my ego doing this.” Again, I just feel like should that dance have to be a part of being an artist, or should that just be put in a box far away from me, and I’ll just do my art and not let that ruin my relationship to it?

KIDMAN: Do that. [Laughs]

GRANDE: Yeah, the spiritually enlightened route. But I actually would rather go the cool young person route and just say what’s on my mind sometimes. I really would, but then I just do a meditation and move on. [Laughs]

KIDMAN: Yeah. But we love you and we’re so all so excited to see, hear, and embrace what you’re doing. So know that.

GRANDE: That makes me so emotional. Thank you.

KIDMAN: But you should feel that, because it’s important.

GRANDE: I feel it and I feel grateful.

KIDMAN: There’s an enormous amount of support and love. Just give us the art, give us the music, give us the joy, give us the pain—give us all of it. Because you can.

GRANDE: Thank you.

KIDMAN: And it’s such a beautiful way to access our emotions, our loss, our joy, our feelings, and you can do it, because you have the most gorgeous gift.

GRANDE: Thank you. I’m crying.

KIDMAN: But it’s good to cry.

GRANDE: It is. I love it so much.

KIDMAN: Yeah, and I’d wrap my arms around you now and say, “It’s okay. It’s okay.” [Laughs] Because I know when I was at my—we’re all tender. Really tender.

GRANDE: We have to be.

KIDMAN: It’s important to be.

GRANDE: It’s our gift, isn’t it?

KIDMAN: And tender is how you access the deepest, truest emotions anyway. So remove the shields and the armor, and then when needed, have the protection.

GRANDE: Yeah.

KIDMAN: But you’re also lucky, because you can do it through music and through acting, so you got it all. So cry those pretty tears. [Laughs]

GRANDE: Do you think that’s part of why we love to act, because it’s a home for these feelings that we have the gift of being able to feel so much of ?

KIDMAN: Yeah. Who uses them is what I get really careful with now, because I kind of stay an open book. I had a director say to me a few years ago, “Be careful, because you’re so raw and open and available. I just don’t want that ever abused or misused.” And I was like, “No, no, I’m willing, I’m willing, I’m willing.” I now understand what she meant, so I try to be careful with that. Because where you place it and how it’s used, a lot of the time we don’t have control over that.

GRANDE: Do you just follow your internal compass and your gut?

KIDMAN: Yeah. And I also still have that slightly laissez-faire approach, where I go, “Oh well, I tried something.” I really love the boldness of trying things, and if it doesn’t work, it doesn’t work. Even though it’s on a world stage, there’s something about staying in that place of, “Well, I’m still just in my living room, trying something or improvising.”

GRANDE: I love that.

KIDMAN: Yeah. To try and take it out of, “Oh my gosh, everybody’s watching this.” Because they’re not. [Laughs] Maybe they are if you get lucky, but a lot of times they’re not. And it’s a better way to approach art, because there is a real freedom to that.

GRANDE: Of course. It’s such a wonderful way to take the pressure off.

KIDMAN: Yeah.

GRANDE: That pressure lingers sometimes, but it’s an important thing to be able to ask it to leave for a moment, so you can just do what feels creatively authentic, and then whatever happens, happens.

KIDMAN: Yeah.

GRANDE: What a terrifying and beautiful thing we do. [Laughs]

KIDMAN: Yeah, and there are so many people that want to do it and are insanely talented, and just don’t get the lucky break. But I think what’s fantastic about our industry is that, actually, there is that chance. We’re not in business or something, where you have to keep working your way up. Sometimes that lucky break can just fall from the heavens and your whole life changes. Maybe you’ve been auditioning for 20 years, and then you get that role. It’s like you’re always on the precipice of everything changing. That’s what’s so wonderful about being an actor or a singer or an artist. It could be just around the corner, that big break. And I’ve seen it happen for so many people, close friends of mine, later in life, too.

GRANDE: Yeah.

KIDMAN: Or the resurrection, that’s exciting too.

GRANDE: It is. It’s beautiful.

KIDMAN: And so if we all just share it and keep talking and keep trying to move forward, it’s a very exciting prospect.

GRANDE: Yeah.

KIDMAN: But you have to get to bed.

GRANDE: I do, somewhat soon. But I’m having too much fun.

KIDMAN: [Laughs] There’s more fun to be had, Ari.

GRANDE: I hope I get to hug you soon.

KIDMAN: Yes! Well, I wanted to do it over Zoom, which is so—have you ever done Zoom therapy?

GRANDE: Of course. [Laughs]

KIDMAN: We just did Zoom therapy. [Laughs]

GRANDE: We definitely just did Zoom therapy, but I loved it so much.

KIDMAN: On that note, you need to go get in the bath so that you can get up at 5:30 and get in the car. See? I’m taking care of you.

GRANDE: I can’t tell you how much this means to me. Thank you for making the time to do this, my Gemini-Cancer cusp sheep friend.

KIDMAN: [Laughs]

GRANDE: You’re an incredible inspiration and icon. I love you.

KIDMAN: I love you, too. And you’re an inspiration. Alright, Rooster.

GRANDE: Okay.

KIDMAN: I was going to say, “Okay, Cock,” but then—

GRANDE: [Laughs] Watch that not even be what I am either.

KIDMAN: We’ll make it that. We’ve decided.

GRANDE: Yeah. Well, thank you. I adore you.

KIDMAN: I love you too. Muah.

———

Hair: Alyx Liu using T3 at A-Frame Agency.

Makeup: Michael Anthony using R.E.M. Beauty at Opus Beauty.

Nails: Coralia Fuentes.

Set Design: Mat Cullen at Lalaland Artists.

Tailor: Joel Diaz at Jolibe Atelier.

Lighting Direction: Jodokus Driessen.

Art Direction and Studio Management: Marc Kroop at VLM Productions.

Digital Technician: Brian Anderson.

Photography Assistants: Pat Roxas and Fyodor Shiryaev.

Market Assistant: Nicholson Baird.

Fashion Assistant: Yvonne Shelly.

Fashion Interns: Sunny Kern and Maya Burgess.

Set Design Assistants: Adrian Ababović and Jacob Friedman.

Production Direction: Alexandra Weiss.

Photo Producer: Georgia Ford.

Production: John Nadhazi and Michael Gleeson at VLM Productions.

Production Assistant: Ryan Carter.

Production Interns: Isaac James Levy and Ha Chu.

Post-production: Stereohorse.

Location: Spring Studios.

Special Thanks: Luxluf and Walker Hotel Tribeca.