Director Andrew DeYoung on Terrence Malick, Marvel Fandom, and Male Loneliness

Director Andrew DeYoung’s laugh-a-minute comedy Friendship might just be one of the most spiritual movies of the year. That’s not to say that it name-checks the divine or that its characters are deeply religious. Rather, the types of questions it explores about how our identities are inherently shaped by the community around us and how overzealous fandom warps our ability to be in true community are fundamentally soulful. Friendship, starring Paul Rudd and Tim Robinson, is an interesting vessel for DeYoung’s preoccupations, featuring characters riddled with contemporary angst. Robinson stars as Craig, a suburbanite content to spend most nights alone, or maybe seeing the new Marvel movie with his son and wife, Tami, played by Kate Mara. The familiar rhythms of his life are disrupted when Austin (Rudd, playing hilariously against type) moves into the neighborhood. For Craig, meeting Austin allows him to see the world anew, and in his zealous attempts to befriend him he abandons all logic and reason. 

At SXSW, Friendship left the Paramount Theater audience in stitches (and maybe a few tears). After a post-film Q&A, DeYoung and I took refuge in The Hideout Coffee Shop and sipped on iced beverages (cold brew for me, a tea for DeYoung) to cool off from the Austin sun. There, we chatted about the cult of Marvel, the contemporary crisis of friendship among men, and the heartwarming letter he received from one of his creative heroes, Terrence Malick, before the film’s SXSW premiere.

———

ZACHARY LEE: This is a fun full circle moment for me. I was almost going to see the movie at TIFF. I was the last person there, but someone ran in and cut in front of me, and I didn’t get to see it.

ANDREW DEYOUNG: Someone cut in front of you?

LEE: Yeah. So your movie was always associated with bittersweet memories, because everyone afterwards was like, “This is the funniest movie ever.” But this time, I was able to see it.

DEYOUNG: Thank god. The universe works in the ways it needs to work.

LEE: Exactly.

DEYOUNG: I’m so glad you got to see it. It means a lot for you to just watch it and sit down with me. 

LEE: Oh, of course. How did it feel to have the film bring the Paramount down in Austin?

DEYOUNG: This is an iconic festival that I’ve always wanted to be in. I’ve never been here before, so it’s so nice to be here with a film. I feel like I’m in such good company and really lucky to be here.

LEE: Maybe having the main character’s name be Austin helps out. I don’t know if that was on your mind or not…

DEYOUNG: That’s funny. Just to give you full behind the scenes, originally he was Brian, and then Paul was like, “Brian is his name in Anchorman.”

LEE: Oh, I didn’t know that. 

DEYOUNG: And he’s also a weather guy, so Paul was like, “Can we change it a little bit?” So he pitched “Austin,” and that’s a good guy name, like a guy you can look up to.

LEE: I know you modified the role for Paul when he signed on. In what other ways did the character or the script change? 

DEYOUNG: Oh, I added some stuff I want to keep in my back pocket. Initially, I wrote it for a star because I needed them in act one and act three, and in act two they could go away. So I only needed them for two weeks. Then he read it and said, “I like this, I want to do it, but can I be in the movie more?” So I rewrote it to put him in more. There was a moment where I thought, “This is hard.” But then I realized it was actually better. I gave him some stuff, some secrets, and all of a sudden the movie worked. It elevates both characters.

LEE: Totally. I loved how you have them in very different roles. You have Paul in a lot of cool wardrobes, while Craig’s jacket stays the same.

DEYOUNG: Yeah, it’s funny. That’s basically all he wears.

LEE: An interesting throughline I noticed was all of the spiritual concepts and idea. Tami’s line while looking at the flowers, “Wasn’t this intelligent design?” The mail keeps coming to the wrong address, but Craig doesn’t try to change it. Is that the universe doing something?

DEYOUNG: That’s interesting. I’ve never heard anyone talk about that. It’s buried there, but no one’s pointed it out before. I like that.

LEE: Also, the recurring gag about Marvel movies being akin to a religious experience.

DEYOUNG: These things have taken over, filling our religious impulse. I’m trying to poke at that—the structures around us that are religious surrogates leading to our alienation—without lecturing or being didactic. Just showing how we are so alienated by a culture that doesn’t have our best interests in mind. Craig is trying to connect people through manipulation without real connection in his own life, until this guy shows up and shows him what it could be like. That’s why he goes crazy, because he’s never felt that before. When you get what you’ve always wanted without knowing you wanted it, and then you lose it, you lose control trying to get it back because it’s so deeply spiritual.

LEE: Once you’ve tasted that, you can’t just go back to being on your phone all night.

DEYOUNG: Exactly. You become obsessed because it’s something real.

LEE: It made me think about the lack of gathering places for men to have those spiritual opportunities. The scene of them singing is funny but also touching. When do we as men get to sing together like that?

DEYOUNG: I was digging into what traditional masculinity looks like, which is often corrosive. What’s a new version where guys can have a wider spectrum of emotions and things they enjoy? He sees it and it blows his mind because he’s never seen guys so comfortable. Singing popped into my head as something unexpected and funny while also showing them unified.

LEE: In the end, there seems to be rules of engagement and a punishment if you can’t be too overt with your love or interest. Craig showing too much of himself is looked at differently. In any relationship, there’s that risk of making your intentions known, in saying: “I want to actually be friends with you.”

DEYOUNG: Paul does it beautifully when he clearly says, “I no longer want to be friends.” That direct communication is so rare in relationships. Many of us ghost or skirt around it. I don’t think Craig knows how to be direct until he’s totally losing his mind.

LEE: It’s a great way of utilizing Tim Robinson’s gifts for being ostentatious and overt. By the way, did you see the new Thunderbolts trailer? It referenced a lot of the crew working on A24 movies. It was funny to see that reference because your movie referenced Marvel so much.

DEYOUNG: The director posted that trailer with an interesting caption: “There’s another movie about friendship coming out in May.” I think the Marvel jokes in my film hit him a little hard. I think he felt it was a shot fired, even though it’s not. I’m just joking about how culture can be disappointing. I’m trying to choose my words carefully, I don’t want to put those movies down; people love them. But there’s something about fandom as a surrogate for real deep spiritual desire, as a way to avoid intimacy, that I’m pointing at.

LEE: It’s easier for Craig to just be a fan of Austin’s than to do the work of actually being friends.

DEYOUNG: Exactly. There’s a projection there, too. It’s a way to avoid a relationship with the self. Again, I don’t want to put those movies down. They do a lot for many people and there’s nothing wrong with big entertainment. I’m very pro-enjoyment, and this movie is designed for people to enjoy without having to think. But we do have to look at our obsession with culture, especially fandom.

LEE: Thank you for making movies that allow people to laugh together. If we can poke fun, it gives people power to think and hopefully ask some of the questions you’re raising.

DEYOUNG: To laugh a lot is such a gift, whether it’s on TV or whatever Tim does on his show. He’s not trying to say anything, just trying to be funny, and that’s a gift. No one wants to be told what to think; we all have an armor against agendas. We’re desperate to have fun. I still have an agenda in my work, but I try to bury it deep so it informs the emotions. At the end of the day, let’s just have a good time for once. 

LEE: It makes me think of the line in Juno, “I’m just ill-equipped.” With what’s called the male loneliness epidemic, a lot of people are well-intentioned but ill-equipped. Projects like yours can hopefully help.

DEYOUNG: So many of us don’t have models for how to behave. That’s why Craig sees a model in Austin for how you can live life a certain way. Many of us, especially straight men, struggle to find people pushing possibilities for how to live beyond our restricted or repressed ways. When I have had those experiences in my life when I’m like, “Oh, that person I, who I thought was way too cool for me is actually dealing with so much stuff and in so much pain and I didn’t even realize”—it makes me empathize and care for them. Hopefully, at the end of the movie, they have found that for each other.

LEE: I love it. As far as influences, were you thinking about The Master and Terrence Malick and Tim and Eric? I’m hoping Way of the Wind might be at Cannes this year.

DEYOUNG: Well, here’s what’s interesting: Nick Weidenfeld, my producer, knows someone associated with Malick, and I was coming to Austin. And I’m like, I wonder if I can invite Malick? And I was like, “Nick, do you think you could get a letter to him?” He’s like, “I could try.” And I wrote a letter, and he sent it to his friend who sent it to his now-assistant. Malick wrote me back a beautiful letter.

LEE: Oh, he did? So he watched the film?

DEYOUNG: No, he hadn’t seen it. I just invited him to our screenings. He said he’s editing right now and he’s like, “Maybe we could go on a walk or something, I’ll let you know.” And then I checked in yesterday and he’s just too busy. But still, I have this note from him. Since I was like 16, he’s been my hero. So I’m dying. I’m so excited for the new film. He’s so brilliant.

LEE: Do you have a favorite Malick?

DEYOUNG: Yeah, so many. The Thin Red Line was when I was introduced to him, and that blew me away. And then, of course, Tree of Life. I love them all. But those two are just unbelievable. Do you have a favorite?

LEE: Yeah, Tree of Life is probably there. And then also A Hidden Life. 

DEYOUNG: Absolutely. I look up to him because he’s not interested in interacting with culture like so many of us are. He’s reaching for something that’s so ungraspable. I think that’s some of why his later films don’t quite work, because he’s reaching for something that’s kind of impossible. And so of course it’s inevitable it might fall flat or be hard to communicate. But still, these movies are so one-of-a-kind, and he’s so dedicated to something beyond all of us, something much, much greater. Humorless films, though. There could probably be a couple laughs.

LEE: I never though about that, but Friendship is one of the most spiritual movies of the year.

DEYOUNG: That’s sweet of you. That is such a nice compliment, because I do like [Andrei] Tarkovsky and Claire Denis and Andrea Arnold. Are those more spiritual filmmakers? I don’t know. But yeah, I feel like that’s the power of cinema. 

LEE: I’m reminded of that line in Megalopolis: “We leap into the unknown to prove we’re free.”

DEYOUNG: I loved Megalopolis. I’m a fierce defender of that movie. Yeah, it gets a little wonky for sure. But he’s taking a big swing. And that’s so, so rare.

LEE: Well, Andrew, thanks for everything. You were preaching today. I know you might not like that connotation, but I feel spiritually enlivened about everything.

DEYOUNG: Well, it’s nice that you pointed out things that invited me to say that, so I appreciate that.