“Everyone Who’s Beautiful Is a Little Ugly”: A Ten-Minute Cig With Jemima Kirke

MONDAY 9:42 PM OCTOBER 3, 2024 LOWER EAST SIDE

When I caught up with Jemima Kirke outside the Voltz Clarke Gallery, where the actress and perennial it-girl was hosting the launch of Jennifer Behr and New York Vintage’s new line of headpieces, it was her second smoke break of the night. “I said I would quit at 34,” the 39-year-old star of Girls and Conversations With Friends told me between inhales. “I missed that one.” Everything Kirke says is delivered with so much conviction that you’re inclined to believe her. Or maybe it’s the British accent. This week’s installment of Smoke Break somehow turned into a Rorschach test as Kirke sounded off on Donald Trump, music festivals, the resurgence of the word “cunt,” Republican interiors, and her brief tryst with vaping. “It’s the worst of both worlds,” she explained, “because you’re not smoking and you look stupid.”

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EMMA STOUT: What are you smoking?

JEMIMA KIRKE: I’m smoking American Spirits. Blue ones, the stronger ones. Have you always smoked Marlboros?

STOUT: You know, during the worst period of my life I smoked yellow American Spirits. And now the smell of them makes me gag.

KIRKE: Because they’re intense, right?

STOUT: Yeah.

KIRKE: If I’m not smoking these, my favorite is a Marlboro red. Or a Marlboro light, but I rip the filter off.

STOUT: Every time someone does that, I know they’ve seen some things.

KIRKE: I mean, I’m so bad. I’ve picked up half-smoked cigarettes in my ashtray before when I can’t find one. It’s very Charlie Chaplin, I suppose.

STOUT: What’s the worst cigarette for someone to smoke? 

KIRKE: It’s tricky, because if I’m asking for a cigarette and someone offers me a menthol, I’m not going to take it.

STOUT: No?

KIRKE: But it’s always a bit awkward. Sometimes I’m not in the mood for awkwardness, so I’ll take the menthol and smoke it and throw it up. A cigarette that would surprise me if someone were smoking it is a Parliament. Parliaments were very early 2000s. Everyone was smoking them when I was going clubbing. The filter had a little space in between, and I guess you could use it to do coke.

STOUT: How beautiful.

KIRKE: They’re kind of trashy club kid cigarettes.

STOUT: The opposite of hand-rolled, the most pretentious cigarette somebody can smoke.

KIRKE: It is. There is something sort of priggish about it, something high and mighty like, “Oh, you’re spending $20 on a pack of cigarettes when you could be doing this.” But when a person of a certain age smokes them, it’s okay. When they’re over 50, they’re probably not posturing. And I think as you get older, cigarettes become even less conscious.

STOUT: When did you start smoking?

KIRKE: 14. And I said I would quit at 34, because they say that if you quit before you’re 35, your lungs can repair themselves. I missed that one.

STOUT: At least you’re not vaping.

KIRKE: I mean, it’s the worst of both worlds. Because you’re not smoking and you look stupid, right? Smoking a cigarette, there’s something sort of timeless about it. When someone’s smoking a vape, I sense a sort of desperation. Like, you really need that. This isn’t glamorous. It’s like you’re pressing a button in the hospital for more drugs. And they look horrible. They look like USBs or car parts.

STOUT: I have a really ugly one in my bag right now.

KIRKE: I did have a moment with them. I was constantly on it.

STOUT: It’s too accessible.

KIRKE: It’s too accessible. I notice that it intensifies the addiction, even if you’re not inhaling chemicals.

STOUT: What are you wearing? You look fabulous.

KIRKE: I’m wearing a piece from New York Vintage, which is Shannon [Hoey’s] place. It’s a gown. How would I describe it? Long sleeves, high neck, low back, and a train. I like it because of the line it makes. But I also recognize that there is something, let’s say… sophisticated about it. It does remind me of the mother at the bar mitzvah. But I don’t hate that.

STOUT: She’s always a diva, so that’s a good person to conjure.

KIRKE: I think it’s the color of the sequins. This color is very early ’90s mumsy.

STOUT: I love that word: “mumsy.” What’s the most British thing about you?

KIRKE: I think that I’m adverse to vulnerability. I like to entertain, which is very English. When you’re socializing, you want things to be upbeat. You don’t want things to get too serious, and I don’t like to get too intimate. There’s just a bit of keeping up with appearances, as it were. Being English can be performative. And the curse words I use are quite English: cunt and knobhead and shite.

STOUT: I told my friend that I was interviewing you and she said that you’re cunt.

KIRKE: I’m what? I’m a cunt?

STOUT: No, you’re cunt.

KIRKE: What’s cunt?

STOUT: It’s good. It’s like diva, but extreme diva in the best way.

KIRKE: So that word sort of came back?

STOUT: Oh, yeah.

KIRKE: Actually, my daughter mentioned that people are saying cunt more. That’s always been the first word before I say “fuck,” so my kids know that that’s my word. But I’ve had to tell them that’s the worst word in America. Now my daughter is saying it’s back, so I guess I’m safe at the moment.

STOUT: I love the story about how you named your daughter. Isn’t her name Rafa after—

KIRKE: The coolest girl I ever met. She was the sister of my best friend in high school. She went to the Nightingale, which was a punk bar. I wasn’t cool enough to go, so I liked to sit outside and watch people wishing that I could. That’s probably where I cultivated a bit of a rough attitude when I’m out because I wanted to be like that, someone who would rip out someone’s earring if they wanted to try it on, like Rafa did once. She was a punk, but not like the punks in magazines. She was strong and she had pimples and she was dirty and her boots looked like they were part of her skin, having been on for so long. And she had a green mohawk. I just thought she was so beautiful. I once went into her room and looked around when no one was there. I saw this photograph of her on a beach in her underwear, but topless, with a stick and warpaint on her face. I was like, “I want to be that.”

STOUT: Is she still your muse?

KIRKE: I think of her, yeah. She became a nurse and a firefighter, a true punk.

STOUT: Where are you going out now?

KIRKE: I don’t really know New York anymore. There was a time when it was a plethora of different styles of partying. I don’t even know if that happens anymore because I live in a quite isolated part of town.

STOUT: Whereabouts?

KIRKE: In Red Hook. What happens in Red Hook really stays in Red Hook. There’s three bars and only one that’s good. So that’s where I go.

STOUT: Is there anyone cute here tonight that you’re looking out for?

KIRKE: I haven’t noticed anyone yet, but I did the other night. I went to a club for an event. And one of the owners is one of those beauties that creeps up on you. I didn’t notice at first, and then light came on and his eyes were beautiful. But more just something to look at. When it’s someone I want to sleep with or I’m attracted to, they’re almost never pretty. I mean, it’s happened before. But it’s not what I look for.

STOUT: There’s a perfect level of ugliness, I think.

KIRKE: Everyone who’s beautiful is a little ugly.

STOUT: If you were to go for a woman, what’s your type?

KIRKE: Butch.

STOUT: Wow, really?

KIRKE: Well, because I’m straight, I think. I mean, I’m straight, but I’m up for it. That’s how a lot of people I know feel about that. With a woman, I like when they’re masculine and they pursue me. I’ve pursued women, but it takes me out of my femininity. Then I don’t feel as excited. I have to believe that there’s some sort of fantasy. Because there always is, right? Even if you never see them again, the fantasy for me at least is that they’re the love of my life. But it doesn’t go past the bedroom, necessarily.

STOUT: Would you ever date a Republican?

KIRKE: Yeah, I would. I don’t think every Republican has bad values necessarily. For me, they both have their strong points and weaknesses. But the reason I might date a Republican is because it takes a lot of bravery to be a Republican and be open about it in my social scene. I know a lot of Republicans who think they aren’t Republicans or would never say it.

STOUT: It’s like the new version of coming out of the closet.

KIRKE: Yeah. It’s always kind of intriguing to me, because it’s not a world I’m familiar with. Also, Republicans are good with decor. When you’re in a particularly white Republican hotel, they do a great table setting and the curtains match the couches. Everything’s really thought through in that way. Really good silverware, too.

STOUT: They can look very posh.

KIRKE: I like the old values in the aesthetics, at least.

STOUT: Did you see that Donald Trump held a rally at Coachella? Have you ever been to Coachella?

KIRKE: No, never. I’ve never been to Coachella. I’ve never been to a music festival, actually. Well, when I used to date a musician, yes. But I stay away from pedestrians. The common folk. [Laughs] No, I’ve never done a festival. And being English, you’d think I would have done Glastonbury. Everyone loves Glastonbury. Not me, I don’t. But why did we talk about this?

STOUT: Donald Trump.

KIRKE: Oh, Donald Trump. What did he do at Coachella?

STOUT: He headlined Coachella.

KIRKE: And were there little Republican hippies?

STOUT: Oh, yeah.

KIRKE: Of course. You know the whole wedding look that’s like, mason jars and rope and flower crowns, that Etsy sort of thing. I think the Republicans, and I’m really generalizing here, have more recently caught onto that style. So now we’re losing the sophistication of their aesthetic and they’re becoming these pseudo hippies.

STOUT: It’s tragic. I wanted to ask, did you see Megalopolis with your former co-star Adam Driver?

KIRKE: Oh, the movie? No, I didn’t. What’s it like?

STOUT: I mean, he always commits to the bit. If there was ever a Girls reboot, would you join?

KIRKE: Yeah. I was going to say for the right amount of money, which is true, but also for any amount of money I’d probably do it. Just because I do kind of miss it. Going to the office is what it becomes when you’re a regular on a TV show. You sort of get dropped off half-asleep and get a coffee and you wake up. It’s a routine that’s nice.

STOUT: What’s your routine like now?

KIRKE: I’m just figuring it out. Smoking cigarettes, cleaning the house, looking at my phone, watching movies. I do a lot of different things and I’m good at a few things, so it’s confusing at times.

STOUT: What’s the best movie you’ve watched recently?

KIRKE: Swan Song, the Udo Kier movie from two or three years ago. It’s so low-budget, but it’s just about an elderly queen who is hitchhiking across the country. It’s gorgeous. It’s one of the few movies I’ve seen where the central character being a queen is not a punchline or a joke. It’s actually besides the point. It was a beautiful movie. I wish I made it.

STOUT: You’re channeling it right now with this outfit.

KIRKE: I’m always channeling a bit of drag.