“There’s Nothing to Look Forward to”: Fran Lebowitz on Crooks, Criticism, and the Mayor’s Race

SATURDAY 7:02 PM MARCH 28, 2025 EAST VILLAGE

For a column premised on the idea of holding interesting conversations with local luminaries over a cigarette, Fran Lebowitz—New York’s preeminent smoker and raconteur—is something of a white whale. So when we found out the writer and former Interview film critic was the honoree at Performance Space New York’s annual gala this past weekend, we jumped at the opportunity to talk to her about a number of zeitgeisty topics. As it turned out, the ever-cantankerous Lebowitz rejects the conceit of a smoke break altogether. “It makes smoking separate,” she quipped. “And I like smoking wherever I am.” Nevertheless, Lebowitz played along, regaling me with her thoughts about the mayoral election and the dire state of arts criticism over a Marlboro Light.

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JAKE NEVINS: How are you doing?

FRAN LEBOWITZ: I’m all right. How are you?

NEVINS: I’m good. So, you’re being honored.

LEBOWITZ: Yeah.

NEVINS: Do you enjoy being feted at things like this?

LEBOWITZ: I mean, it never happens. It’s so rare. Usually, I give the awards. Generally, I’m a giver. That’s just—

NEVINS: What was the last award you gave?

LEBOWITZ: Oh, I’ve given a million. Really, I’ve given almost every award you could give with the possible exception of the Nobel Prize.

NEVINS: [Laughs] So, Smoke Break is all about celebrating the random connections forged over a cigarette. Can you tell me about a few memorable encounters you’ve had with people over a smoke?

LEBOWITZ: Well, you used to be able to smoke everywhere. You didn’t take a “smoke break.” So I don’t like the idea of smoke breaks because it makes smoking separate. Okay? And I like smoking wherever I am. Of course, you’re too young to remember this, but you used to be able to smoke anywhere. And I know that people are very irritated by the fact that I smoke a lot. Because people believe now that if you smoke a cigarette, you drop dead. Or worse, that If I smoke a cigarette, they’ll drop dead, which is idiotic.

NEVINS: Okay, so we’re—

LEBOWITZ: Here’s the thing. It is not a character flaw; it’s an addiction. Okay? People feel sorry for every other kind of addict. You know, a heroin addict who might break into your house and steal from you, people who drink too much who might run you over in a car. I always say to people, “Which would you rather have? Your children in a car with a smoking driver or a drinking driver?”

NEVINS: Smoking, 100 percent.

LEBOWITZ: Of course, smoking.

NEVINS: I’ve got a few things I’d like to ask you about. You began writing film and literary criticism first for Changes and then eventually for Interview. I’m curious how you feel about the enterprise of criticism as it exists today, which is a bit of a hot-button topic.

LEBOWITZ: Really? Luckily, I was unaware of that. I mean, the shit that I wrote, it really just needs you to be funny. Obviously, I don’t see everything on the internet, you know? But I do wonder in general why there is no good art criticism. Of all the kinds of criticism there is, it is the worst writing. The worst. And I don’t know why, because it’s a fantastic subject.

NEVINS: Well, we lost Peter [Schjeldahl].

LEBOWITZ: Yes, that’s true. Everyone should be able to understand it, you know? Perhaps it’s mostly just sad that they probably think it’s better that no one understands it.

NEVINS: Okay. So the issue is that criticism is too highfalutin?

LEBOWITZ: No, not too highfalutin. Too poorly written. Too lowfalutin.

NEVINS: That reminds me that the art critic at The New Yorker just got fired for—

LEBOWITZ: I read that.

NEVINS: Yeah.

LEBOWITZ: But I don’t understand what he did. He was drunk at a party?

NEVINS: Personally, I thought that’s what office parties were for.

LEBOWITZ: I mean, I didn’t know who this guy was. His name was Arn, right?

NEVINS: Yeah, Jackson Arn.

LEBOWITZ: Yeah. I’d never heard of him before that. He appeared out of nowhere. Well, to me.

NEVINS: His tenure there was quite short. Your buddy Martin Scorsese is here tonight. I imagine he’s going to be making a tribute for you?

LEBOWITZ: But according to Pati [Hertling], it’s very brief. Marty says one sentence, hands it to me, I say “thank you” and I leave.

NEVINS: Okay. Is that how you like it?

LEBOWITZ: I never got an award before, so I don’t know. When she suggested it to him, I said, “He’s so busy, he may not even be here. Call him.” And she said, “He said yes.” 

NEVINS: There you go. Is there anything he could say that would truly embarrass you?

LEBOWITZ: No. He doesn’t know anything.

NEVINS: So, we’re here to celebrate Performance Space New York. We’re in a moment where the government is waging a large-scale assault on public funding for the arts.

LEBOWITZ: Well, we’ve always been.

NEVINS: Right.

LEBOWITZ: This is not a country that has ever been good with that, ever. Okay? Ever. I mean, it’s worse now because the country’s worse and these people are worse. These people are worse than the other people we thought were the worst people. But the Republicans are always trying to shut it down, you know? I mean, it’s not just that they don’t care about it. They hate it. Okay? So let’s just think about what that means, that they hate it. You know? I mean, I can’t say the most surprising thing about Trump, but I was pretty surprised that he grabbed the Kennedy Center. Because I thought, “Who told you about the Kennedy Center?” Right?

NEVINS: Totally.

LEBOWITZ: When were you ever even there? So of course, everyone associated with it resigned. You know, I don’t know what they’re going to have there. I mean…

NEVINS: What’s driving you most insane about this administration two months in?

LEBOWITZ: You know what? I don’t know, because I haven’t seen any news for like, 35 minutes. In my absence from the news, we could have invaded Sweden.

NEVINS: Mm-hmm.

LEBOWITZ: Who knows? They went to Greenland today. These things are so outlandish. I mean, really, this is something you make up. He is causing a problem with Denmark. Denmark?

NEVINS: Pure, innocent Denmark.

LEBOWITZ: Denmark, okay? Canada. I mean…

NEVINS: It’s bad.

LEBOWITZ: Because he’s a bully, so he bullies people. But they’re not formidable opponents. I mean, financially, Canada is. And he may not be aware of that because he’s not aware of anything. But I mean, he’s very obsequious to people that are strong, like Putin, and he’s very bullying to people who are smaller. And that’s what a bully is.

NEVINS: Well, what would you say to a young artist who’s trying to make it in a country governed by cruelty and philistinism?

LEBOWITZ: Do you know who Daniel Patrick Moynihan was?

NEVINS: I do.

LEBOWITZ: He was a senator from New York in his later years. But when he was young, really young, I think still in his twenties, he was working for Kennedy. JFK, not this other one. And somebody asked him, “What can we do to encourage the arts?” And he said, “Forbid them.”

NEVINS: Right.

LEBOWITZ: So it won’t maybe be bad for things that are actually made, but it’ll be bad for people. It’s bad for every person in the arts.

NEVINS: Well, anything you’re looking forward to?

LEBOWITZ: Well, yeah, but they’re small things. There are no giant things, no.

NEVINS: Right.

LEBOWITZ: Because then I would be insane. There’s nothing to look forward to in this world.

NEVINS: Any thoughts on the mayor’s race?

LEBOWITZ: Well, I hated Eric Adams. I didn’t vote for him. I mean, in the general election, I did. But I would say to people, “He’s a crook. Can’t you see he’s a crook?” I mean, this wasn’t some subtle thing. I voted for the socialist candidate in that election, even though I’m not a socialist. I don’t remember her name. But no, I would never vote for Cuomo. I do not see the point of replacing one thug with another. You know? I have friends who are going to vote for Cuomo and their reason is like, “He’ll stand up to Trump.” What does that even mean? It’s a meaningless thing, I think. He’ll yell? Maybe he’ll yell. I don’t know. If we want somebody to yell, I could yell at Trump too, but where is that going to leave us, you know?

NEVINS: Right.

LEBOWITZ: But I think Cuomo will win.

NEVINS: It’s looking that way.

LEBOWITZ: Yeah, I think he will, because a lot of people think he’ll stand up to Trump. And I’m like, “I don’t understand what that even means.”

NEVINS: I suppose it’s because he projects a certain machismo.

LEBOWITZ: Okay.

NEVINS: Thanks for your time, Fran. Can I take a picture of you?

LEBOWITZ: Sure.