“The Goal Is to Be a Cult Superstar”: 30 Minutes With It Boy Louis Bubko

I’ve known Louis Bubko since he was 18, and I’ve always thought he was one of the best gays around. Louis has been making zines recently, first dropping My Dream Man and now Za Zine, an investigation into the art of contemporary weed bags in New York. After catching a matinee screening of Babygirl the day after Christmas, we discussed the film, his zines, Grindr, men and modern love over tea at my place.

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MEL OTTENBERG: Hey, babygirl. Thanks for doing this.

LOUIS BUBKO: Hey now.

OTTENBERG: We just went to see Babygirl. It’s amazing.

BUBKO: Jarring, shocking. It takes you to every single place a movie should. But should we start with the casting of the movie theater people?

OTTENBERG: Old women. We should have talked to them and asked them what they thought of the movie. Especially the man that left when Nicole Kidman gets naked.

BUBKO: I think he jerked off.

OTTENBERG: You really think he jerked off?

BUBKO: I don’t know why he left.

OTTENBERG: I thought he had to pee and get candy. Do you remember there was that other 70-year-old man that came and sat in the front row?

BUBKO: He must be one of those people who sits around the theater all day hopping around.

OTTENBERG: That guy was like a former Greenwich Village hippie.

BUBKO: Seriously. I’m wondering what he got out of that movie coming in at the unraveling of Nicole’s whole entire life. It feels like a woman driven into complete madness from the deepest, darkest depths of her horniness.

OTTENBERG: I do not recall seeing a more horny movie. I feel shaken, physically shaken, as Lisa Barlow said. 

BUBKO: My jaw was dropping. 

OTTENBERG: Now, tell me about your book about the art of New York City weed dispensary baggies.

BUBKO: It’s pretty amazing. Pink panties was one of the first baggies that I got. I bought it on 8th Street and between 1st and 8th.

OTTENBERG: For the weed or the bag?

BUBKO: I bought weed in this bag because they were using random skanky bags and putting whatever weed in it. That place got shut down. Hit or miss, you really never know what you’re getting at some of these delis. A lot of them are selling an equivalent to spice.

OTTENBERG: What’s spice?

BUBKO: In 2012, spice was the synthetic marijuana that everyone was smoking and losing their minds over. It’s not spice, it’s just shitty weed to be honest. But it’s crazy how almost all those old bags and packaging was gone overnight after weed got legalized. The sexy, pretty girl baggies are my favorite because I always just kind of resonated with a pretty girl. Also, what’s his face?

OTTENBERG: Roy Lichtenstein.

BUBKO: Yeah. It’s also funny when they do a New York theme. It feels true to the fabric of it all. And it’s interesting to see what spaces they choose to highlight. Washington Square Park, of course.

OTTENBERG: Weed central.

BUBKO: That was a frontier of when people first started selling weed. You remember right after it happened? Everybody would be out with tables selling their joints?

OTTENBERG: Yes, and the coolers in the summer. It’s like an ice cream cone with weed.

BUBKO: They had so much stuff. It was like a market in Pompeii.

OTTENBERG: Yeah.

BUBKO: This one I found on the street in Greenpoint and the art deco is crazy. I don’t know who put an art deco fox on a weed bag.

OTTENBERG: Fantastic.

BUBKO: I stole this from a homeless person’s encampment. I saw it sitting on the side of the street. I felt horrible, but at this point I was grabbing anyone I saw. One time a guy got in a fight with me and he said, “It’s mine.” And I’m like, “It’s not yours.” There was a lot of drama trying to get some of these bags. I got away with this one though. 

OTTENBERG: Wow. Backwoods all natural leaf paper. It’s so stunning. What a world. 

BUBKO: The mixing of the worlds too is really interesting. This is Kim Kardashian. I refuse to believe it’s anybody else but Kim. And that’s Nicki Minaj, but it’s not. It’s like their look-alikes.

OTTENBERG: Well, that’s definitely Nicki Minaj.

BUBKO: For sure. That’s the “Anaconda music” video.

OTTENBERG: I understand that this is Kim Kardashian too.

BUBKO: The zaza one is usually doing an iteration of a famous woman. There’s a Megan Thee Stallion and then Jessica Rabbit.

OTTENBERG: I understand the fantasy.

BUBKO: It bundles too. A lot of hair, a lot of beauty. Smoky Eye.

OTTENBERG: Yes.

BUBKO: She looks amazing.

MEL OTTENBERG: You’re doing amazing, sweetie.

BUBKO: Anyway, I published the book with the company Blurring Books. DB Burkeman started it. He’s done a lot of different books within this realm, including collecting all his heroin bags from the ’80s in the Bronx. It’s an interesting collection of things, but it was cool to do it with them and have it be part of a broader, bigger thing. 

OTTENBERG: Where could you buy it?

BUBKO: You could buy it on the Blurring Books website or in the link in my Instagram bio.

OTTENBERG: Will you sign this book?

BUBKO: Yeah, of course. 

OTTENBERG: What about your last zine, My Dream Man?

BUBKO: She had a little bit of a renaissance because darling Michael Bullock wrote a really nice review about her in The Whitney Review. I love when the gays understand the My Dream Man fantasy.

OTTENBERG: You’re a gay guy talking about what you want. You’re making your vision board. It’s not a joke.

BUBKO: Exactly.

OTTENBERG: You have a lot of humor, but it’s also really sweet.

BUBKO: I wanted to tap into the idea of true love. Someone is going to come along and solve every problem in your life.

OTTENBERG: There’s a Chet Baker song with the line, “But will I pass her by and never know that she was my ideal.” That is very My Dream Man. Even if my dream man walks by me on the street today, how would I know?

BUBKO: You wouldn’t know. We’re so inundated with every single possibility in the metaverse that we almost can’t see the magic right in front of us. We’re becoming disillusioned within relationships in general because we have this idea that there’s so many different people in the world, there’s so many hot guys, and you could just message them on Instagram. It almost makes you more trepidatious when you actually encounter somebody who’s a good option.

OTTENBERG: A few years ago, I was dating this guy I met on Grindr who was a 10. He was like, “Grindr was so terrible. It’s filled with 10s looking for 11s.” No matter how perfect you are, you’re suffering if you’re on Grindr looking for an 11 that doesn’t exist.

BUBKO: A lot of times you’re dealing with a lot of bullshit. That’s not even who they are, but who they’d like to be. The guy I’m seeing right now, we met in the street in Greenpoint. I wouldn’t have been able to see all that I see in him through an app.

OTTENBERG: Yes.

BUBKO: When you’re faced with the reality of somebody you’re into, it really is not that complicated. I do think the power that we hold in filtering and choosing is killing this idea of romance. You can’t let the fantasy die completely because then, what’s there to live for anymore?

OTTENBERG: Now on Grindr, I’m like, “Send me a video,” because if you’re hot, you might be a catfish. Then sometimes they don’t send me a video and I’m like, “Baby, you’re probably a catfish.” I have been catfished down.

BUBKO: I can imagine someone like you would be. There’s a lot of little shitheads on Grindr.

OTTENBERG: I started putting my face on there.I have nothing to be ashamed of.

BUBKO: That’s fierce. There’s a lot of shame attached with being on the grid. But I do think that it is one of if not the most lucrative form of fucking in 2024. That’s how people hook up now. 

OTTENBERG: Back to My Dream Man, I often think that my future husband or my next boyfriend is probably on Grindr, but also I might meet him on the street. The last guy that I dated for over a year, I saw him in Washington Square.

BUBKO: Really?

OTTENBERG: Yeah, we met in person. But someone else was giving me dream man recently off Grindr. And he was like, “Wow, you’ve been ignoring me for a year on Grindr.” And then I invited him over. I’m like, “Your pictures are so bad.” He’s like, “Yeah, fuck that. I don’t need to take better pictures.”

BUBKO: That’s almost hotter too.

OTTENBERG: At first I was like, “Why did I invite this guy over?” And then when he walks in the door, I’m like, “Oh, you’re fucking cool.” So if you read this, you know I’m talking about you. We had a really good time, but the other thing is the guy I’m talking about is chronically online. He’s always on Grindr. 

BUBKO: That’s tough. How many times do you meet a guy who’s sexy and he is not embodying it and it is the least sexiest thing. If you’re not that hot, but you act like you know what you’re giving, it’s so much more important.

OTTENBERG: I got laid on Christmas and the guy isn’t even that hot, but the way he carries himself is so hot. Therefore, he’s hot.

BUBKO: And that is power.

OTTENBERG: If you read this, you are very hot.

BUBKO: I have so many dream men from places that I had to leave them behind. There’s something really powerful about that too, because at the end of the day, it does seem like these relationships end a lot. Things change.

OTTENBERG: Yeah.

BUBKO: You get used to people and that magic that you might feel in the beginning with your dream man, it goes away. But it never fucking goes away with one magical hookup where you’re leaving saying,”I don’t want to go.” There’s something really nice about not being able to have it.

OTTENBERG: I really like this. “He isn’t a faggot but he is a faggot. And he isn’t embarrassed that sometimes I act like a faggot.” Thank you for writing this prose. It’s like a beautiful haiku of love.

BUBKO: I think people get it. The faggots get it. It really does express a deep gay thing. I don’t know.

OTTENBERG: By the way, if I put that in writing on Instagram, they would flag my entire account. It’s such bullshit.

BUBKO: Mama.

OTTENBERG: Fuck them.

BUBKO: The apps. The apps. Every single—

OTTENBERG: We’re faggots.

BUBKO: I was talking shit about the green M&M and they reported me and took the post down and didn’t restore it. When they changed her from a pump to the cheese stick leg with a Stan Smith, I didn’t like that.

OTTENBERG: She should have a pump.

BUBKO: She looks like shit now. So I read her, but they took it down immediately. They’re on you.

OTTENBERG: She looks bad.

LOUIS BUBKO: She looked horrible when they gave her the mozzarella stick legs. I hated it.

OTTENBERG: Wait, can you still buy My Dream Man anywhere?

BUBKO: I’m not actively selling them right now, but if somebody wants one they can go to my website and send me an email.

OTTENBERG: Okay, babygirl. Also I love your zines. Do you have a favorite?

BUBKO: Actually, I don’t. Weirdly, I’m not that educated on the world of zines. I do want to give a special shout out to Brontez Purnell, who is a mother of zines. I think that Fag School shows the true nature of zines, which is to not be too bogged down on the details of everything and just get out what you need to say.

OTTENBERG: You mean bogged down by just one simple idea.

BUBKO: There’s a lot of flow to Brontez’s work. A lot of times when you’re creating something, it’s easy to have a perception of what you want it to be, and that will fuck with the flow of what you’re doing. But with zines specifically, and especially in Brontez’s zines, you just have something to say. In doing that, it almost makes it feel even more special and authentic. Recently, what really inspired me was Mike Kelley’s retrospective in Paris. Did you go to it, Mel?

OTTENBERG: No, fuck!

BUBKO: It was fucking insane.

OTTENBERG: It was during Paris Fashion Week?

BUBKO: It was last year, but it was one of the best shows I’ve ever seen in my life. I’ve never resonated more with an artist’s voice and vision. It really drove in the fact that there’s a limitless to his creations, and he is not confined by anything. It rerouted the way that I thought about what to create and how to put things into the world.

OTTENBERG: Louis, you’re one of the most creative young people I know. How else are you harnessing that besides just existing these days?

BUBKO: There’s equal parts existing and documenting existence. It’s really about romanticizing every single part of your life, and being able to see it all as fantasy. I’m trying to harness the energy of the magic of life and somehow put it into tangible art.

OTTENBERG: Is your TikTok art?

BUBKO: I hope that people see it as art, honestly. In my wildest dreams, it’s performance art, but it’s the last social media that feels fun to post on. We’re just laughing and being stupid, where I don’t feel like that as much with Instagram anymore. So if my social media is performance art, then yes, TikTok is where I’m really dropping the latest pieces.

OTTENBERG: I’m really down to drop a TikTok that I like that gets 300 views. The most popular shit is not the best stuff. That is a construct of the evil oligarchs of technology. That is not the way the world’s ever been.

BUBKO: The goal is always to be a cult superstar, not a superstar. You want to be the girl who the girls get. People are bored of the big numbers.