Get a Load of Jamian Juliano-Villani, the Chaos Agent of the New York Art World

With her deviously seductive neo-pop paintings, her wild-child life, and her roving downtown gallery, O’Flaherty’s, Jamian Juliano-Villani has so much going on it’s almost as hard to pin her down on paper as it is in person. After moving to the city from her native New Jersey in 2011, the artist began showing her self-taught work in tiny galleries on the Lower East Side. Now, the 38-year-old artist is filling the walls of Gagosian and Massimo De Carlo—although the maniacal, madcap spirit of her art remains the same. Jamian’s canvases are like a space launch into the gorgeous, ADHD-diagnosed, speed-fueled chaos of the internet, any image ripe for a twisted, impulsive iconification—fashion shoots, dead celebrities, phone selfies, memes. Meanwhile, Juliano-Villani and her crew seem to be having a very good time keeping the downtown art scene alive. Last December, her good friend, artist Borna Sammak, stopped by her studio in the Flatiron district to draw, roll joints, and talk the night away.

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FRIDAY 1 AM DEC. 13, 2024 NYC

BORNA SAMMAK: Hi ding-dong.

JAMIAN JULIANO-VILLANI: Hi ding-dong.

SAMMAK: Okay, let’s start here. You are the most annoying person I’ve met in my life. Why do you think that is?

JULIANO-VILLANI: ’Cause we’re friends? I don’t know why I’m so annoying. You know something funny? I was talking to my mom on the phone today and she was rambling the way I ramble, and I was like, “Fuck it, I’m starting to draw.”

SAMMAK: You started to draw on the phone with your mom? Do you think you’re turning into your mom?

JULIANO-VILLANI: I hope not. Isn’t that everyone’s personal nightmare?

SAMMAK: The lips are starting to look the same.

JULIANO-VILLANI: I’ll take it.

SAMMAK: She’s a cool lady. Where do you get your lip filler?

JULIANO-VILLANI: I get them done at Plump or Evolve. I’m thinking of maybe also having—well, I wanna get my teeth done first. Should I get the ashtray? Oh, look, I’m starting to read this book. Four pages in.

SAMMAK: You made it four pages? This is a children’s book.

JULIANO-VILLANI: So? Look who you’re talking to.

SAMMAK: Who Moved My Cheese? Alright. Teeth first and then what?

JULIANO-VILLANI: I don’t know. Hopefully a savings account.

SAMMAK: When did you lose your first tooth?

JULIANO-VILLANI: I don’t know, but I know that I have eleven left.

SAMMAK: Oh shit.

JULIANO-VILLANI: I need to go to my dentist, Ayanna Poindexter, and get some new ones. I keep on making appointments and I keep on fucking it up. No one wants to go and sit in a chair and experience pain for no reason.

SAMMAK: There’s a reason, but nobody likes the dentist.

JULIANO-VILLANI: What a weird job, right? Can you imagine dating a dentist or a surgeon?

SAMMAK: Would you trust a dentist or a surgeon?

JULIANO-VILLANI: I don’t know. They get creative too, you know. [Laughs] Can I ask you a dumb question? What artists have you been looking at recently?

SAMMAK: Recently, recently? I’ve just been looking at metal bands and old clothes.

JULIANO-VILLANI: That’s good enough. Here, you wanna try this fun pen? These pencils are not sharp enough. I’m trying to draw some fucking bad version of a Wyeth. Not Jamie—

SAMMAK: There’s Andrew—I recently went on an ill-fated date that started at a Target in Pennsylvania and ended at the Andrew Wyeth house.

JULIANO-VILLANI: Ill-fated?

SAMMAK: The house was closed.

JULIANO-VILLANI: That sounds like a great date.

SAMMAK: Pretty bleak. It was the day after Thanksgiving.

JULIANO-VILLANI: I keep on thinking about the Uber driver you fell in love with. Remember?

SAMMAK: That guy’s like a Philly real estate slumlord mogul now. But at the time, he owned a couple pizza shops and we had sex in the kitchen of one of them while he made me broccoli bites the night Trump got elected the first time. What was the 2016 Trump election night like for you?

JULIANO-VILLANI: I met Sam [McKinniss], Elaine [Cameron-Weir], Catharine [Czudej], Toby [Czudej] and we went on the roof of Catharine’s building. I was like, should we just jump the fuck off ? It felt like the world ended or something, but then I don’t think it did.

SAMMAK: What was Trump’s most recent election like for you?

JULIANO-VILLANI: Didn’t care.

SAMMAK: You didn’t care?

JULIANO-VILLANI: No, I guess that’s the thing. It’s like people get mad at me for not being political or using my voice to do something. But you know what? If I’m going to use my voice to do something, I’m going to talk about something that I actually care about.

SAMMAK: Which is what?

JULIANO-VILLANI: Animals, animal rights, ethics.

SAMMAK: How long have you been vegetarian?

JULIANO-VILLANI: Since I was 9. I’ve slipped up a couple times and I still wear leather and shit, so who the fuck am I? And my dog’s probably dying, but—

SAMMAK: Timmy’s got a cough. What about fish? You eat fish?

JULIANO-VILLANI: No, I can’t. I had a fish tank, which was disturbing enough.

SAMMAK: What about how you also don’t like water or ice?

JULIANO-VILLANI: I know. I just don’t like water. I’m trying to get into it now.

SAMMAK: How are you going to get into water?

JULIANO-VILLANI: Freakin’ tea! With alcohol in it, low-key.

SAMMAK: You also love a prank. Do you have a philosophy of a good prank?

JULIANO-VILLANI: No, because all my pranks are pure evil.

SAMMAK: They’re very evil. Most of them are too evil to print.

JULIANO-VILLANI: Totally. I know they are. But I think it’s a good learning curve. It’s a lesson.

SAMMAK: You’re trying to teach people a lesson.

JULIANO-VILLANI: Yeah. Don’t trust anyone. But also, have a good sense of humor about stupid shit, because shit’s going to happen no matter what.

SAMMAK: Do you remember when Adam got kidnapped?

JULIANO-VILLANI: Oh my god. Tall Adam?

SAMMAK: Yeah, after I passed out, you took my phone and texted all our friends that our 7-foot-tall friend Adam had been pushed into a car and kidnapped.

JULIANO-VILLANI: Didn’t he though?

SAMMAK: Would you not remember? You made this up. And then you turned my phone off and I slept ’til 6 p.m. the next day. Everyone was very concerned; I woke up to a thousand texts.

JULIANO-VILLANI: Oh, that’s hilarious. I forgot about that.

SAMMAK: You told me you used to have a music journal in high school. What was in it?

JULIANO-VILLANI: It was like me trying to get into jazz and being embarrassed about it.

SAMMAK: Do you play an instrument now?

JULIANO-VILLANI: I played cello for a couple of years, and I’m trying to relearn guitar.

SAMMAK: Since when?

JULIANO-VILLANI: Last week. And I’m not good at all. My fingers aren’t big enough! But I think I’m going to figure it out. It’s also really dorky. You can’t walk around with a fucking acoustic guitar. What are you? A total loser. You know what I mean? So you gotta do it privately. No one needs to know.

SAMMAK: It’s like learning to skateboard at this age.

JULIANO-VILLANI: Oh, I would love to.

SAMMAK: Say you can play guitar. What kind of band are you starting?

JULIANO-VILLANI: Let’s be basic here. Probably something like if you could combine Tate McRae with Art of Noise.

SAMMAK: What kind of shows were you going to in high school?

JULIANO-VILLANI: Oh, like Small Brown Bike, Tenfold, The Assistant, Gang Gang Dance, Lightning Bolt. All that shit. No Noise Festival. Mission of Burma was my first real show in the city. And then Suicide. I got roofied at one of the concerts. I got punched in the face too. And Bruce Springsteen was there. He was right next to me and I got punched.

SAMMAK: You got punched in front of the Boss, dude.

JULIANO-VILLANI: He used to work for my grandma as a dishwasher at her restaurant in Asbury Park. It was kind of like a parallel to the Stone Pony. It was called the Deck House. But yeah, he was there. He made my Christmas stockings when we were, like, kids.

SAMMAK: Like he sewed them?

JULIANO-VILLANI: No, glitter pen, and then they got lost in a flood. But it was, like, some real Michael’s-level shit. Isn’t that cool?

SAMMAK: So somewhere at the bottom of—

JULIANO-VILLANI: A garbage can or landfill there is a Bruce Springsteen Christmas stocking.

SAMMAK: That says “Jamian” on it.

JULIANO-VILLANI: In glitter pen.

SAMMAK: Why is your voice the way it is?

JULIANO-VILLANI: Genetics, I’m assuming. I also think I have polyps.

SAMMAK: Your family seems to take being Italian American very seriously.

JULIANO-VILLANI: They really do.

SAMMAK: What’s your go-to pasta?

JULIANO-VILLANI: Mini ravioli. Soft on the teeth. You can’t fuck it up. Also I really do love pastina. What about you?

SAMMAK: You know me, I like a trash pasta—you make fun of me all the time. You’ve made me some shitty pastas too, though. You like bland food, I’ve noticed. Why do you think that is?

JULIANO-VILLANI: I like to keep it democratic. You know what I mean? Keep it simple. If people want to fuck it up later by putting spices on it, then they can do it themselves.

SAMMAK: Do you like spicy food?

JULIANO-VILLANI: Yeah, I like painful shit—where my nose is dripping into the wrong pipe. That’s my favorite. I want to be on the cover of Bon Appetit magazine.

SAMMAK: Doing what? Boiling water? [Laughs]

JULIANO-VILLANI: Yeah. Like, why not?

SAMMAK: Alright, you’re on the cover of Bon Appetit. What’s in front of you?

JULIANO-VILLANI: MSG.

SAMMAK: “New Vegetarian Fare by Jamian Juliano-Villani, MSG on a plate.” Do you know what a trickster is? The mythological figure.

JULIANO-VILLANI: No.

SAMMAK: Do you know what a clown is?

JULIANO-VILLANI: I know. But what is your definition of a clown?

SAMMAK: That’s what I want to ask you. What is your definition of a clown?

JULIANO-VILLANI: Oh god. I don’t know. Whatever the fuck we’re doing right now.

SAMMAK: Do you think certain artists are clowns? Do you think all artists are clowns?

JULIANO-VILLANI: We’re all clowns. People make art every day in their daily lives, and we’re just making a fucking pastiche of it. It’s like, “Who the fuck are we fooling here?” Right now, I’m making this stupid drawing, right? Don’t people make drawings all the time? So I’m a clown by calling myself an artist, right? Don’t people make art everywhere all the time? Technically?

SAMMAK: Yes. But then they’re all artists.

JULIANO-VILLANI: Yeah. So what the fuck am I doing? Bullshitting? I make money off my art.

SAMMAK: Yeah, so?

JULIANO-VILLANI: I don’t know. My opinions on this shit are ass—it’s just hard to quantify. I think everyone is thinking the same shit though.

SAMMAK: Yeah. Especially right now.

JULIANO-VILLANI: Thank god that stupid banana sold for $6 million. That gave me some hope.

SAMMAK: Me too, actually.

JULIANO-VILLANI: I was like, you know what? Good conceptual art could actually fucking keep going.

SAMMAK: It was a little corny how it unfolded towards the end with the collector eating it, but I still appreciate it.

JULIANO-VILLANI: I do too. Thank god someone did something that dumb.

SAMMAK: Maurizio Cattelan is a great artist. There’s no denying that.

JULIANO-VILLANI: Period.

SAMMAK: Who do you look up to, artist-wise?

JULIANO-VILLANI: Obviously anyone that we do a show with at the gallery. I am a huge fan of Jordan [Wolfson], Billy [Grant], Elaine [Cameron-Weir]. There’s so many fucking people that I think make good art. That’s a stupid question.

SAMMAK: Well, those are our peers. What about—

JULIANO-VILLANI: [Mario] Schifano is very good. Agnes Martin, I love. I like Hanne Darboven a lot. Do you know her work? Those are the ones I’m looking at now. I love fucking John Rogers Cox. I like a lot of the FSA [Farm Security Administration] painters.

SAMMAK: What is that?

JULIANO-VILLANI: In the 1920s, ’30s, the government commissioned a bunch of artists to do shit about America and the landscape of America. It’s about place. It’s kind of like Grant Wood, but not.

SAMMAK: Do you like Grant Wood?

JULIANO-VILLANI: Of course. It’s regional and people can relate to it. I feel like when you make art, it’s helpful to have something that’s close to you so you can kind of grab onto it.

SAMMAK: Do you feel like your paintings do that?

JULIANO-VILLANI: No. My paintings are supposed to give people options. I like showing people things.

SAMMAK: There are hyperspecific references, but they’re kind of unknowable yet familiar references.

JULIANO-VILLANI: Yeah. It’s supposed to be kind of a big dictionary, for later.

SAMMAK: Like an encyclopedia.

JULIANO-VILLANI: Yeah. When I first started painting, whenever I’d get stuck, I’d get a visual dictionary. If you’re lost, you just kind of flip to any page in there, and then you can generate an idea.

SAMMAK: Do you believe in ghosts?

JULIANO-VILLANI: Dude, are you fucking kidding me?

SAMMAK: I know you do, but let’s talk about it.

JULIANO-VILLANI: I definitely believe in ghosts and I feel like everyone’s slightly psychic for sure. But it’s also like, if we talk about ghosts, we can talk about aliens, and then we’ll be here forever.

SAMMAK: Have you seen those drones over every city right now?

JULIANO-VILLANI: I actually saw a metal bird, and it was not a drone.

SAMMAK: I’ve been thinking about pigeons. Some pigeons are not real. There was that “Birds Aren’t Real” kid on YouTube who went on a whole campaign and started a joke conspiracy theory movement around it. But there’s documented fake birds. That’s a real thing. Wait, where did you see the metal bird?

JULIANO-VILLANI: Going over the Williamsburg Bridge. I was with Billy [Grant] and we saw it and we were like, “It’s not a drone. It’s not a bird. It’s not a balloon.” It was metal and it was like the shit from fucking Harry Potter. Billy and I were like, what? We didn’t want to tell people. It was so scary.

SAMMAK: Fake birds are real.

JULIANO-VILLANI: So what do you think a clown is?

SAMMAK: Someone who peddles in fakery. And if they’re good at it, secretly.

JULIANO-VILLANI: Totally.

SAMMAK: Why do you never know where you are geographically?

JULIANO-VILLANI: Because I’m fucking dumb. I don’t know. I mean, I used to know where the moss grows on the side. I think because I live in New York. Maybe because I’m short.

SAMMAK: So you just have never had to get yourself anywhere?

JULIANO-VILLANI: I have. I just haven’t driven in so long.

SAMMAK: Have you ever walked? Have you ever taken a bike?

JULIANO-VILLANI: No. I just don’t trust myself. If I start driving or start moving, I’ll never come back.

SAMMAK: What would you do along the way?

JULIANO-VILLANI: Leave pebbles. I would probably have a giant train of garbage behind me. I’m distinctly American and that’s what I do. Find garbage, generate garbage, bring it to the table and put it down. Keep moving.

SAMMAK: What would you call your fashion sense?

JULIANO-VILLANI: Derelict preppy? I don’t know. I don’t really have one. Should anyone have one?

SAMMAK: You do have one though. It’s like something preppy, something glamorous, something slutty and cheap, and you try to wear all three at the same time.

JULIANO-VILLANI: Welcome Back, Kotter with some rhinestones.

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Hair: Kabuto Okuzawa using Oribe at Walter Schupfer Management.

Makeup: Frankie Boyd using Tom Ford Beauty Streeters.

Photography Assistant: Zoe De Blasis.

Fashion Assistants: Nicholson Baird and Chloe Shaar.

Post-production: Camerin Stoldt.